trying a new load????what does this mean

[sonny]

hello,i am trying a new load in my 54 cal flinter an fired a six shot group that made a nice cluster but in 1 1/2 up an down(vertical stringing).I was using 70 grains 2f swiss.Is the group telling me increase the powder or decrease amount?.When i use 70 grains of 3f swiss i don't get this but group is more open........>??.....sonny

[Daryl]

Kinda depends on your sight picture with that specific target - lighting plays havoc with groups sometimes - tight, round groups are what we're all after.  Elevation can be caused by differing pressure when seating the ball on the powder.  As the barrel heats up, heat waves play havoc with a group.  1 1/2" isn't too bad if it's 50 yards or farther, especially with such a light load.  Too - are you wiping at any time during the group?  Do you have to wipe during a group?  Can you shoot 30 or 40 shots without having to wipe? Are you shooting at 50 yards? Offhand or benched?

I believe 70gr. of 2f is a very light, squib load for a .54 - it's too light for a .50 in my book.  Try increasing your charge to at least 85gr. 2F - maybe 90gr. to 95gr. and see what happens. More powder is needed for longer ranges.  Guys I know who shoot well at long range with .50's and .54's, ie: 75 to 200 yards, are using 120gr. 2f in a .54. larger calibres use even more powder to get accuracy at the longer ranges.

[Roger Fisher]

Hey Sonny: I do believe your problem is you ol grey head and old eyes,  Thinking you should see a good optician

Serious - I'm told old eyes cause vertical stringing of your shots!

[Dphariss]

One group is just one group.
Shoot another 2 or 3 and see if all of them are strung vertically.
Even 70 grains of FFFG is too light for any 54 I ever owned.
Most like 90-100 and maybe more if FFG.
Dan

[sonny]

funny rodger..............I kind a thought that 70 grains of 2f swiss was ok in the power department.I clean after every shot.....I read somplace that it means more powder ?can't remember............sonny

[Daryl]

Vetical stringing in modern rifles means just that - more powder or better ignition - BUT - the bedding must be perfect or it may just be the bedding of barreled action in stock.

With a muzzleloader- you must shoot 5 to 6 groups, not just one or two - as I said- vertical stringing can also be caused by, perhaps a donzen different things. Only one of the reasons for stringing is the lpowder charge - which is too small by the way, to show consistant results at anything more than 25 yards.

Wiping betwen shots may also cause stringing if it is done even slightly differently - some guns just don't like being wiped between shots.

[Mad Monk]

You might want to try wiping between shots versus not wiping between shots.

When the Swiss powder first came into the U.S. I knew about it's "moist burning" property from what I had read on late 19th century sporting powders.
Once I got into the chrono work I got to see just what all of the desire was about in the old writings.

When I ran a series of shots over the chrono without wiping between shots my ES fell to 5 fps in a string of 5 shots.  With wiping the bore the ES was up around 20 fps.

That moist-burning property of the powder produces what might best be described as a steady state of bore fouling when one does not wipe the bore between shots.  So when I was wiping between shots I must not have gotten the bore to the same "condition" each time I wiped.

Generally, vertical stringing usually represents shot to shot velocity changes.

[Daryl]

I agree with elevation changes with velocity changes, but only past about 75 yards and not much.

 Bore condition is probably the deal, BUT - too few shots were fired to tell anything, really.

As Bill notes, wiping usually gives around 20fps extreme spreads, while shooting 'dirty' with either a 'clean shooting' or 'clean-loading' load will drop the spreads into single digit readings. Such were my .58 and .69 tests a long time ago. Wiping or using Pyrodex 'dirty' ran spreads to mid 20's to 30fps.

[Darkhorse]

Are your underlugs slotted to allow barrel movement when it heats up?
Doesn't sound like a load issue to me, sounds mechanical.

[sonny]

when i brought the gun home to clean i noticed the tag screw was loose enought to turn with my finger tip.The tag was slightly lifted out of the tang slot in the wrist.hmmmm should have noticed that earlier.Could a very loose tag screw cause it to raise the p.o.i...?,,,,sonny

[Roger Fisher]

when i brought the gun home to clean i noticed the tag screw was loose enought to turn with my finger tip.The tag was slightly lifted out of the tang slot in the wrist.hmmmm should have noticed that earlier.Could a very loose tag screw cause it to raise the p.o.i...?,,,,sonny

Well now Terry, why couldn't it

Of course how would I know I haven't had a screw loose lately then again I may have

[sonny]

oh ya rodger...........like you check all the screws on your gun every time you use them.....right!!!!!........I bet your going to check them the next time your gun won't perform...............sonny

[Daryl]

I've not had any screws loosen on my rifles, over a period of some 20 years - but that's on 'custom' builds.  Properly bed, whether it's steel to wood, or steel/glass/wood as in a recoil lug/tang area on a heavy kicker, I've not had screws loosen.  Loosening might more easily happen when using something like a particularly soft Red Maple, or American Black Walnut that might compress over time. The harder woods resist this, so the screws stay tight.

[Roger Fisher]

oh ya rodger...........like you check all the screws on your gun every time you use them.....right!!!!!........I bet your going to check them the next time your gun won't perform...............sonny

Not on my rifle/rifles man not on my rifle/rifles!!!