English Style Trigger Guard using a Monkey Wrench and a Vice....

[Curtis]

...plus a few other tools.  I have been very busy with work and have not had a lot of time in the shop or time to post much lately, I am making up for it with lots of photos!  William Brockway's book Recreating the Double Barrel Muzzeloading Shotgun was my primary source of inspiration.  There are a couple of things I will do differently the next time around.  It is not completely finished, that will have to wait untill it is installed on the pistol.

Here it is in pictures!

Layout:



Initial cut out:



Trimming up:



Finished trimming - then did some shaping with a file:



Starting to bend to shape:



Monkeyin' around



A little hammering:



More bending:



Adjusting:



Shaping the pistol grip finial:



Shaping a cut scrap for the spur using an improvised swage block:



Checking for fit, marked for cutting:



Shaping Spur:



Ready to rivet and braze - I forgot to take any pictures of the brazing, I was too wrapped up in the moment. I used borax for a flux and brass filings sprinkled near the joint, heated to bright red until the brass flowed into the riveted joint.



After brazing and filing spur to shape:





Next I am silver brazing the front guard screw.  Jerry Huddleston was kind enough to send me some pure silver to experiment with.  For this application I cut a strip and used it like solder.









The fluxing combination I used:



Trimming bolt head:



A little piening:



Getting a visual:



That is as far as I go for now.



Thanks for looking.  Maybe one of these days I will get this project finished!!

[gunmaker]

Nice work, I like to make those as well. To get the bow in a nice circle I clamp a 4" chunk of 1-1/2" or 2" water pipe in vice, clamp guard bow to be to it with pair 8" vise grips and pound it around pipe with a sofl hammer.   Then add extentions as you've done....Tom

[Ed Wenger]

Excellent tutorial and work, Curtis!  Thanks for sharing, good stuff!


     Ed

[jerrywh]

 Lookin real good.

[moleeyes36]

This would be a nice addition to the Tutorial section for future reference.

Mole Eyes

[Dew]

Thanks for posting this. I have been thinking about making a trigger guard but wasn't quite sure how to go about it. I was wondering how thick of metal did you use and if you heated it up before you bent it.  I never have brazed anything but your pictures helped to explain it.  I think this should be a tutorial as well. Thanks Dew

[mab7]

What type of gas are you using?

[Curtis]

Thanks guys!  I am away from home and cannot verify but if I recall correctly the metal was 3/32" thick. All the bending was done cold.  I typically use two torches, one mapp gas and one propane.  For larger pieces I use two mapp torches.

Curtis

[mab7]

Does the Mapp gas provide a more controllable or better heat over using acetylene with say a 100 series Victor or smaller plumber's torch?

[WadePatton]

Does the Mapp gas provide a more controllable or better heat over using acetylene with say a 100 series Victor or smaller plumber's torch?

Mapp is just propane on steroids.  Either propane or acetylene with oxygen is going to give you better control of your heat-with limits to your torch and tip sizes of course. 

Silver is no brass.

[KLMoors]

Oh heck yeah!  Any thread with a title like that is click bait for me.

[Bob Roller]

Thanks guys!  I am away from home and cannot verify but if I recall correctly the metal was 3/32" thick. All the bending was done cold.  I typically use two torches, one mapp gas and one propane.  For larger pieces I use two mapp torches.

Curtis

 Go to a welding supply shop and ask to see a Presto-Lite "B" cylinder and the
 correct regulator and hose + tips. I have used this for 50 years with success that
 speaks for itself.The gas is 40 cubic feet of acetylene and acetone compressed
 and it puts out a clean HOT non carbonizing flame. I use the #5 tip for frizzens
 and mainsprings and the #3 for everything else. I have a Mapp out fit and it
 is hot while it lasts but it doesn't last.

 Bob Roller

[Mark Elliott]

MAPP and Acetylene are similar gases, and are very dirty.   When you ignite them before adding oxygen,  they emit an oily, almost plastic in appearance, smoke and soot.   I don't want that mess inside my shop.  Propane is nice and clean.    I use propane and oxygen with a Smith Little Torch and love it.  It gets hot enough to burn up the black iron wire i use to hold stuff together for brazing, like it is thread.  That is with the largest (still pretty small)  #7 tip.  This is a really tiny torch intended for jewelry work;  and when I use it to soft solder tin powder measures and such,  I have to use a #3 tip, turn the pressure way down, hold the tip a couple inches from the work surface and keep it moving.   It takes like two seconds to get the whole 3" tube hot enough to flow 50/50 solder.  The tiny little flames it produces are many, many orders of magnitude hotter than the plumbers type propane and MAPP torches I have used in the past.  It is really just exactly what I need for soldering, brazing, and heating small parts.   I also have a rosebud head for it that heats much better than any of the MAPP torches I had.   I can easily bring any lock part up to hardening temp using that rosebud in less than a minute.   It is amazing what that tiny little torch will do with just propane and oxygen.

As for the guard,  I would have made that completely differently because I would have forged it all.  It is still a useful tutorial for someone who doesn't have a forge.     

[Bob Roller]

MAPP and Acetylene are similar gases, and are very dirty.   When you ignite them before adding oxygen,  they emit an oily, almost plastic in appearance, smoke and soot.   I don't want that mess inside my shop.  Propane is nice and clean.    I use propane and oxygen with a Smith Little Torch and love it.  It gets hot enough to burn up the black iron wire i use to hold stuff together for brazing, like it is thread.  That is with the largest (still pretty small)  #7 tip.  This is a really tiny torch intended for jewelry work;  and when I use it to soft solder tin powder measures and such,  I have to use a #3 tip, turn the pressure way down, hold the tip a couple inches from the work surface and keep it moving.   It takes like two seconds to get the whole 3" tube hot enough to flow 50/50 solder.  The tiny little flames it produces are many, many orders of magnitude hotter than the plumbers type propane and MAPP torches I have used in the past.  It is really just exactly what I need for soldering, brazing, and heating small parts.   I also have a rosebud head for it that heats much better than any of the MAPP torches I had.   I can easily bring any lock part up to hardening temp using that rosebud in less than a minute.   It is amazing what that tiny little torch will do with just propane and oxygen.

As for the guard,  I would have made that completely differently because I would have forged it all.  It is still a useful tutorial for someone who doesn't have a forge.     

 I suppose that is why acetone is incorporated into the acetylene in the "B" tanks I use.
NO smokey residue in the 50 years I have used this.I do ALL my springs and frizzens,
tumblers and sears with it and an occasional case hardening job on a double set trigger.

Bob Roller

[P.W.Berkuta]

Does the Mapp gas provide a more controllable or better heat over using acetylene with say a 100 series Victor or smaller plumber's torch?

I use both propane or oxy/acetylene for my hobbies. The plumbers torch I've had since 1968 and the Victor 100 I've had since 1983. Propane burns cleaner but you are limited with what you can do with it. The Victor 100 with tips from #000 to #3 & "rosebud" I can do everything that I want. I started with a 300 cubic ft acetylene bottle & a 245 cubic ft oxygen bottle and when they got too heavy for me to handle I downsized two times to what I have now which is "B" size (40 cubic ft) for both oxygen & acetylene.  The plumbers torch bottle, which is aluminum, holds about 8 lbs of propane and is very light to carry. They each serve their own purpose. The Mapp Gas bottles will cost you more in the long run if you do a fair amount of soldering/light brazing/heating. Also the reason for the acetone in the acetylene bottle is so that the acetylene gas can fill the bottle. The acetylene gas is absorbed by the acetone that is in the bottle and then released as free gas when you use it. This is why you never lay a acetylene bottle on it's side or run the bottle complety empty - most recommend leaving 20 to 50 psi of gas in bottle before having the bottle refiled.

[David Rase]

Curtis,
You are a man after my own heart.  I love the figuring out and working through first time endeavors.  Hammers, wrenches, vises heat and files are what it is all about, at least for me.  Great looking project.  I look forward to seeing your progress.
David

[PPatch]

Nice Curtis! Thanks for the demo.

dave

[Curtis]

Thanks for the input everyone.  I have an oxy- acetylene rig I should probably use for stuff like this, I have used it for cutting in the past and not much else.  The mapp and propane is nice and portable and handy to keep in the shop and serves fine for the small stuff.

David, I'm with you bud! A lot of times I probably do things the hard way, but I sure enjoy the journey using the old school hand tools!

Curtis

[davec2]

Bob and Mark,

Like Bob, I have had a Prest-O-Lite torch in constant use for more than 50 years.  When you light an oxy / acetylene torch, you light the acetylene alone with no oxygen except what it gathers as it burns in the open air.  This results in the very sooty, oily carbon black flame until the oxygen is introduced.  (In fact, I often use this to very quickly carbon black something large, like a barrel, for inletting). 

Bob and I don't get any soot using the Prest-O-Lite torch, because it is an "air breather" and immediately entrains and mixes air with the acetylene inside the torch tip.  So what you light, as it comes out of the torch tip, is well mixed acetylene and air. No soot.

Bob,

The Prest-O-Lite torch actually only burns the acetylene and not any acetone to speak of.  Acetylene has a very unstable triple bond between its two carbon atoms (this is also why is burns very hot as that triple bond contains a great deal of energy that is released by burning) and cannot be pressurized above a certain pressure (~ 30 psi) without exploding.  But acetylene is extremely soluble in acetone, so that is how it has been safely stored and transported in the tanks you buy.  The tank is actually filled with diatomaceous earth soaked with acetone.  The acetylene is dissolved in the acetone and kept at fairly low pressure.  As you draw off gas from the tank, more of the acetylene comes out of the acetone, through the regulator and out to the torch.

[Bob Roller]

Bob and Mark,

Like Bob, I have had a Prest-O-Lite torch in constant use for more than 50 years.  When you light an oxy / acetylene torch, you light the acetylene alone with no oxygen except what it gathers as it burns in the open air.  This results in the very sooty, oily carbon black flame until the oxygen is introduced.  (In fact, I often use this to very quickly carbon black something large, like a barrel, for inletting). 

Bob and I don't get any soot using the Prest-O-Lite torch, because it is an "air breather" and immediately entrains and mixes air with the acetylene inside the torch tip.  So what you light, as it comes out of the torch tip, is well mixed acetylene and air. No soot.

Bob,

The Prest-O-Lite torch actually only burns the acetylene and not any acetone to speak of.  Acetylene has a very unstable triple bond between its two carbon atoms (this is also why is burns very hot as that triple bond contains a great deal of energy that is released by burning) and cannot be pressurized above a certain pressure (~ 30 psi) without exploding.  But acetylene is extremely soluble in acetone, so that is how it has been safely stored and transported in the tanks you buy.  The tank is actually filled with diatomaceous earth soaked with acetone.  The acetylene is dissolved in the acetone and kept at fairly low pressure.  As you draw off gas from the tank, more of the acetylene comes out of the acetone, through the regulator and out to the torch.

Davec2,
Many thanks for the refresher on the "B" tanks. It has been about 50 years since I bought my first one.
It has ben my source for heat in making locks and triggers since 1965 and before that I used a big gasoline blow torch with an air pump that had to be pre heated.An old gunsmith here.George Killen made a BIG blow torch from a brass fire extinguisher tank and the nozzle and preheater from a regular plumbers torch.He pumped it up with a car tire pump and when he fired it up it roared like an engine and the flames had a green tint to them.George is long dead (1977) and I think the VA got rid of his tools.He was in their care for the last 3 years of his life and cursed them soundly.He told one of them that they had taken him prisoner and the whole
@!*% German Army couldn't do that in WW1 of which he was a veteran.Some of the cute nurses that looked after him thought he was a "sweet old man".I awakened them when I told them George had killed three idiots 
in a gun fight in 1912 and that he had called in artillery on 5000 German troops.One of those girls said that was war.George laughed and told the "These troops had already surrendered".
Enjoy the winter.

Bob Roller