Mink Oil

[Standing Bear]

The horse is still dead.

[moleeyes36]

Wade,

I'm going to get a lot of mileage from your term "accurate wipelessness".  That's a good one, well done.

Mole Eyes

[Dphariss]

First we have to ask what is in Mink oil. I bet its got other stuff in it. The MSDS I find on the WWW are not all mink oil.

I would use beef tallow, get some kidney fat from a meat cutter and make a year's  supply with a little time.
For really cold weather use PURE neatsfoot oil.

Dan

[Dphariss]

We need a smiley for kicking a dead horse.

When ignorance of the theory and practice arises, some of us feel a duty to try to help those who may not have experienced the joys of accurate wipelessness.  

-as to the Original Q, I've not tried extended shooting with anything but spit.  Only took 4 loadings to get me through venison season.  NFO was planned but tallow was used in field.  I haven't disproved NFO for my purposes yet.  



Hanshi knows, he's an old guy.  Others could learn from him.  He knows stuff. 

Define accuracy. 10 ring at 50 yards? Not good enough for a traditional rifle match.
13 shots from the bench at 60 yards make a hole just large enough to pass the shooters thumb? I have seen this done.
There is a reason that people wipe between shots and its not because they like the extra work. With a wet lube its very difficult to maintain an uniform bore condition. Offhand shooters will likely never see it.  But people that REALLY work at accuracy will. Its not needed for trail walks or even hunting. It might not even cause a loosing score in a scoring ring target. But in string measure matches it will.  Being "out" and extra 1/2" for each of ten shots adds 5 inches to the string.
Take a 5" string at 60 yards. Divide the 5 by 10 and this is the standard distance from center. .5" Even a 12" string is only 1.2" average.

I once ringed a bore with spit patches so I quit them about 35-40 years ago.
Dan

[Daryl]

Dan - I see and understand what you are talking about, and in a Chunk or Plank shoot as you guys shoot in, I'd probably wipe as well.

You guys fire one shot, rack your rifles and wait for the entire line to shoot that one shot - then walk down to change targets.

There is a LOT of time between shots - while the fouling from that last shot, dries out - wiping is pretty much needed for guilt-edge accuracy under those situations.

[hanshi]

First I think it should be understood that those of us who speak of shooting long strings and no wiping are  not lying.  This is what we do and experience with our rifles.  There's no need to ask for "proof"; we say it and are honest about it.

A legitimate question might be, "define accuracy" and define a "long string of shooting".  Unable to speak for others I can only speak for myself and what I know.  "Ease of loading" means (my definition) that the seating pressure for the final prb must not noticeably differ from the first or second loading.  A string can be 20 shots or 50 shots.

Accuracy.  I don't own any target rifles nor shoot formal matches.  I don't obsess about accuracy nor try for the ultimate precision in grouping.  I'm a hunter and recreational shooter and only try for as good grouping as I need for those purposes.  Perhaps the following will be telling.  I own a .36 flint LR and consider it to be very accurate.  I've taken it shooting and after a few dozen shots down range, it still gave me a 5 shot 3/4" group at 45 yards.  This is more than adequate for my purposes.  With small bores I seldom shoot past 30 or so yards, anyway.  A squirrel head is tiny at that distance.  On one casual outing with a friend we lined up plastic Coke and water bottles at a (paced) 88 yards.  It wasn't that difficult (standing and seated but no bench) to consistently hit the bottles even with the few inches of drop.  I'm not a very good shot although I do seem to generally be quite above average.  In a formal match I'd likely be wasting my time.

[Daryl]

Well stated, hanshi, but then, I'm not sure about your last sentence. What's defines a "formal" match?

When we shoot the trail walks at Hefley rendezvous, are they not formal matches?  Is the plank shoot the "Fort George Free Trappers" are now putting on at the same rendezvous, a formal match?  I am quite sure you would do very well indeed at all of these 'matches' whether called formal or casual - we're mostly casual about all of them.

Keep all 10 (5 per target) in the turkey's head and string measure defines winners and also-rans. Quite simple and easy scoring - most of us are also-rans - then if it's after the afternoon shoot, it's "Miller time" before supper.

Oft times if really hot, it's nice to sit in camp all afternoon, palavering about whatever and having a 'cold one or three'- such is rendezvous.

[George Sutton]

There is an article in this months Muzzle Blasts (March 2015) titled "Barking off a Squirrel and other Squirrel Hunting Tales" by Steve White.

In the article he refers to a story of a squirrel hunting trip that Daniel Boone and John J. Audubon went on.  He quotes Audubon " Boone kept up his  firing, and before many hours had elapsed, we had procured as many squirrels as we wished:  for you must know, that to load a rifle requires only a moment, and that if it is wiped once after each shot will do duty for hours." Later in the article he refers to a story from the Dr. Daniel Drake family papers (circa 1788) where he refers to hunters wiping their rifles before loading. There is no mention of lube.

I watched Taylor's short video of him loading his rifle. He is using a steel ramrod. You can overcome a lot of fouling with a steel or plastic rod.

If I am shooting in a line shoot most times I will wipe after every shot. In the woods, not so much, hunting, never. I have owned rifles and still do, that are difficult to load if you don't wipe often, and all I've ever used is Goex.

It is a personal preference thing.

Centershot

[hanshi]

Well stated, hanshi, but then, I'm not sure about your last sentence. What's defines a "formal" match?

I see your point, Daryl.  I've done a couple of woods walks and was well up in the pack.  I guess I'd have to say that it doesn't take a rifle capable of a 2" 5 shot group at 100 yards to win any of the woods walks I've been to.  The smallest 100 yard groups I've ever fired were in the order of 3.5" to 4".

[Daryl]

 I'm about ready to give up.

Taylor is not using a steel rod - that rod, while skookum, is hickory, not steel. When on the trail - no matter how many shots he has fired, he uses the rifle's hickory rod. When testing loads he uses the cleaning rod as he had been doing, prior to making the video.

The rod under the barrel in my .45 flinter which had been fired perhaps 40 to 55 times that day with NO wiping, is 3/8" hickory. That video has been posted too many times. It is not BS - it is the truth.  HICKORY rod- .445" ball, 10 ounce DENIM patch - .0225" in my calipers squeezed as tightly as possible between fore=finger and thumb.



Ross had fired many more than the rest of us had that day, as he starts as soon as the range is open - 8AM- we started at 10:AM. He also does not have to wipe and he uses a thinner patch than we do. I just do not "get" how anyone can be STILL having trouble loading after firing 1- 20 or 60 shots.

The barrels of my .58 Kodiak had been fired perhaps 30 or 40 times before I decided to take the video. This video also has been posted too many times. No wiping at any time.



We do NOT understand how anyone who seems to have a LOT of experience, could be having trouble or even saying the fouling builds up.  The way we load and shoot, it does no such thing.

I've never owned a rifle that was difficult to load AFTER I found out how to load them (about 1973) so I didn't need to wipe during a day's shooting. When I first got the TC rifle in 1972, I had fouling problems, broke the factory rod, etc, etc and had to wipe it - often.  

Then I read Ned Robert's book and tried out what I had just learned - Not sure exactly when I started with the smooly chamfered muzzle crown- about the same time, I'd guess- 1973. I was not stubborn to attempt 'new' methods - Eureka!- No More Fouling Buildup.  It works.  Shoot all day with never having to wipe the bore. Then I bought Lyman's BP Handbook and by jingles, their ball engraved by the patch ALL the way around picture, grooves and lands engraving, was what mine looked like if punched into the muzzle then pulled out with the strip of patch material.

Saying that ML bores have to be wiped, is simply repeating new shooter's problems - for the rest of your lives. You can lead a horse to water - but -

If you have a bore that is or was neglected and it is pitted one end to the other, or pitted badly somewhere, it will pick up fouling and retain fouling. If you are the only owner of that barrel - it is YOUR FAULT - you ruined your barrel.

Our late friend, Peter had a rifle with a Getz bl. that was cleaned with boiling hot water immediately after the day's shooting was over - every time. Peter would not even have a beer on a hot day before cleaning his rifle.  That bore was pitted one end to the other, a buildup of flash rusting over the years - yet- we were able to shoot it without wiping - it was grabby, though - no fun to load.

After 2 separate lead lapping jobs we were then able to load and shoot it without wiping and loading is very much easier than when it was pitted badly. It still feels like it's picking up a bit of fouling, but the tapered 3/8" to 5/16"" rod is all that is needed & the loading remains the same, not getting more difficult - it does not need wiping.

[Pete G.]

Goose $#@* has to be better than Bore Butter  . 
Mole Eyes

Agreed, but I have a little 36 that will not shoot well with anything else I have ever fed it.
Perhaps I should follow a goose around for a while; how fresh does it need to be?

[Daryl]

Believe bore butter is simply chap-stick compound some wintergreen scent added.