Brown Bess Lock Tuning

[Potato John]

I am building a 34" BB carbine for clay bird shooting. I am using a Pedersoli lock which seems very stiff (heavy springs!) On a well tuned Brown Bess, how many pounds of pull does it take to move the cock from half cock? How many pounds of pull does it take to start to lift the striker? I measure by using a fishing scale attached to the knob of the cock screw and the tip of the striker plate all parallel to the barrel. They are now 9#/4#.
Potato John

[Potato John]

  OK, frizzen, not striker plate.

[T*O*F]

A Brown Bess is a military musket.  They have heavy springs designed to ensure positive ignition, being fast and heavy.  What you are asking is immaterial on this type of lock.  Tuning only requires slicking up all moving parts and achieving a trigger pull that you are comfortable with.

Otherwise switch to a different kind of lock.

[E.vonAschwege]

Hello John
   Welcome to the ALR forum!  A Brown Bess is indeed a military piece - certainly not intended for bird shooting (though I'm sure soldiers used it for that anyway).  A lighter weight fowler would be more appropriate if you intend to shoot clay pigeons or real birds.  Onto your Bess lock - The springs are supposed to be quite heavy - these were muskets and everything about them was heavy duty, including springs and trigger pull.  If it is sparking well, you don't want to mess with the springs except for polishing all bearing surfaces to a mirror shine.  The trigger pull can be tuned to achieve a comfortable let-off weight.  If you're still building the gun, you can pin the trigger high and 1/2" forward of the sear for a crisp and light trigger pull.  With the trigger in place, you can slowly shave a little material from the sear spring, and tune the engagement of the sear to the fullcock notch - I'd say start with the trigger positioning and work from there, as it's very easy to mess up the sear/tumbler engagement if you're unfamiliar with these locks. 
-Eric

[Pete G.]

All the fiddling in the world will not overcome the fact that it was designed as a heavy duty military piece. Thousands of old Springfield Muskets were converted to smoothbore utility pieces, but they were strictly a cheap substitute for a sporting piece. A Bess for sporting use falls into the same category.

[Acer Saccharum]

It WILL ignite, rain or shine. Perhaps appropriate on a Hudson Valley gun for birding. But a svelt light fowler? I don't think so.

[bob in the woods]

I shot some ducks and geese with my " Bess"   [ bismuth shot ] but it was rather cumbersome. I never could shoot the darn thing very well, so have gone to a Chamber's New England fowling gun [ 10 bore].  There is no comparison in handling quality. I love my NE fowling gun , however, it's no partridge gun !  For upland game, I have now built a Chamber's Officer's fusil and that is very quick handling in the woods.  I recommend that everyone should decide what they want to do with the gun/rifle; and then design/build it accordingly.  The Chamber's round face locks on the guns I have described are reliable and responsive .They fit the task perfectly. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I had a repro Brown Bess (may have been Japanese) back in the late seventies/early eighties.  It was 75 cal and as I remember it quite light.  I used it for trap at the Canadian Nationals in Ft. McMurray in 1980 iirc.  I do remember going 25 straight from 16 yards, tying a fellow competitor who was using a breech loading double.  In the shoot off, which was being filmed by CBC, I lost on the tenth bird, and Todd got his.  There were some who suggested that he concede to the flintlock, but we shot off for the medal anyway.  So the Bess can make a decent fowling piece, but there are certainly better designs.

[bob in the woods]

Taylor, I'm sure that yours handled better than mine. I purchased and used extensively, an India made version. It was not the best stock ….handled like the proverbial 2x4. but I managed to put a lot of game in the freezer with it.   One day, after doing some reading, I pulled the breach plug, and on the basis of what I saw, never shot it again.  I have since tried a Bess made from Track of the Wolf's parts and it is much better.  But…not as good as my N E fouling gun   That stock is perfect for me

[Daryl]

The gun Taylor had was what Lyman was selling, I think. It most likely was Italian, not Japanese and dated prior to the India influence of non-vented 'replicas' with full markings as if they'd been through the proofing house.
That musket also managed a moose in the early 80's. I have the ball recovered from the "off side" - a 1 1/4ounce of lead, flattened out into about 1 1/16" disk. 100gr. 2F was the load - again, iirc.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I think the Brown Bess musket, in any of its configurations, makes an entirely legitimate period correct arm.  In the day, it was a battle field find, a surplus military arm, and an issue arm, so it had lots of opportunity to make its way into the hands of civilians.  Bit it is what it is, and what it is not, is the best fowling piece in the world...there are many better designs.

[Potato John]

Thank you all for your replies, but nobody answered the question. Some of you were inspirational - some of you are stuck in the mud of heresay. My "heavy" military musket weighs 6.9 pounds - less than your Remington! As for heavy  locks, it breaks the flints. Thanks again.

Potato John

[Hungry Horse]

 I think what everyone is trying to tell you, is the geometry of the Brown Bess lock is such, that it will always be slower than a more compact sporting lock, and the impact of the hammer contacting the frizzen, at its lightest usable adjustment will jar the gun, making accuracy hard to attain. This will be emphasized in a gun that weighs less than seven pounds.

    Hungry Horse

[Ryan McNabb]

OK, a few things.

First, I doubt five people in the world have ever measure the force it takes to cock a BB.  So you're asking for data no one has ready to hand.

Second, sometime flints break from heavy contact with the frizzen but more often they are broken by the frizzen actually bouncing back on top of them after the cock falls.  You can't see this with the naked eye, you can only catch it with fast motion film photography like has been done several times. 

Thirdly, if you feel the mainspring is excessively hard, it can be re tempered. 

I don't know of a good domestic BB lock.  They basically all come from overseas factories and that can range from acceptable to awful.  They're usually pretty junky locks, sadly, so if you want a slick, dependable arm you have a hobby on your hands.

Given all the reenactors all over the world who use BB's you'd think a good state of the art BB lock would have come out but the ones we have are good enough to go "ch-boom" half of the time which for most needs is frankly adequate. 

Heck, I bet you could still sell muskets in Africa.  Not everyone can afford a Kalashnikov.

[Daryl]

In "Firearms of the American West 1805-1865" well noted (re-printed quotes of letter to the armory's from 1800's) statements to the effect that the main springs of the military rifles are too strong, break flints and disturb the aim when they strike the hammer - they stated the springs should be to reduced to 1/2 strength along with the feather spring will make a lock less prone to breaking flints and disturbing the aim thus improving accuracy of the piece.  The writer went on to add the ball's diameter in the ctgs. should be increased to reduce the windage and improve the accuracy.  In a test, the ball's diameter was increased to .65" from .64" and this doubled the hits on turkey targets () at 100 yards distance, from 1 hit in 5 shots, to 2 hits in 5 shots - a definite bonus to larger balls and softer springs.