Griffin fowler images

[ShutEyeHunter]

Always looking 3 projects ahead...

The Colrain 16 ga. Griffin fowler barrel (TOW lists it) looks perfect for what I want--a light upland gun with an occasional round of trap or singles skeet.  It's only 3 pounds.  I have a soft spot for the 16--my first gun was a Stevens 311 double in 16.  Restocked it with a nice piece of walnut and hunted grouse with it for over 40 years.

Been looking for images of a Griffin fowler--Google, Yahoo, and the search here haven't turned up much.

I have Grinslade's fowler book on order, but figured the Griffin was English.  Have seen references to a book on Griffin or Griffin and Tow, but wanted to see if I liked the basic lines before I order another book.  Otherwise I'll have to build a new bookshelf instead of a fowler...

Any help finding a picture would be appreciated!

[smart dog]

Hi,
Click on the link below to see a classic English fowling gun restored by Jim Kibler.  I currently own the gun.  It was not made by Joseph Griffen or his father, Benjamin, but it illustrates a style used by both those makers.  The barrel is tapered round but an octagon-round barrel would be just as appropriate and attractive.
 
http://www.jimkibler.net/originals/#/englishfowling/

dave

[ShutEyeHunter]

Beautiful!  Need to practice my engraving.

Looks like the TOW English Fowler parts set is close.  (Not planning on a kit, just for illustration purposes)
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/600/1/ENGLISH-FOWLING-GUN-FLINT-PARTS-LIST-HOOKED-BREECH

Which is more common -- hooked breech/barrel keys or fixed breech & pins?

I'm assuming that English walnut is the right wood?

Thanks for the quick reply!

[Mike Brooks]

Ah, the internet. Ask a question expect free information. I had to pay $400 for the "Griffin and Tow" book by Neil and Back to find the information you're looking for. Forgive my jaded response....
 Buy the book, invaluable information. Better yet, hit some high end gunshows and handle some originals, they are different in the hand than the pictures.

[James Rogers]

Yep, Neal and Back 'so Griffin and Tow book is full of them. There may be a few as new copies still in the UK for about 300£.

In truth, the "Griffin fowler" barrel was more than likely a Spanish made octagon to round barrel that was on a Griffin gun. The 16 bore is a good choice as it is the largest bore made on that O/D.

[Mike Brooks]

Beautiful!  Need to practice my engraving.

Looks like the TOW English Fowler parts set is close.  (Not planning on a kit, just for illustration purposes)
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/600/1/ENGLISH-FOWLING-GUN-FLINT-PARTS-LIST-HOOKED-BREECH

Which is more common -- hooked breech/barrel keys or fixed breech & pins?

I'm assuming that English walnut is the right wood?

Thanks for the quick reply!

The TOW parts that are shown aren't really a good choice, I wouldn't go by those particular pictures.
 Hooked breech and keys and English walnut are correct choices. Some lower end export guns had standard plugs and pins, although I doubt any export quality guns ever came out of the Griffen shop.
 Check some of the big gun auction houses for pictures....Sothby's and the like.
 

[smart dog]

Hi,
In fairness, Mike, Neal and Back's books are essential for sure but they rarely show a full image of a gun.  You get a good feel for the lock area but not much else.  Handling originals is certainly great but some folks simply don't have much opportunity.  The auction catalogs are often better with respect to more views of each gun but the really good ones are often hard to find or incredibly expensive.  I believe the internet is a really valuable resource useful to everyone who knows where to look or how to search.  Indeed, I urge you, Shuteyehunter, to visit Mike Brook's website (http://www.fowlingguns.com/) to see examples from a man who really knows how to build a fowler, whether French, Dutch, English, or American.  I agree strongly with Mike's comment that TOW's examples of fowlers and some of their parts are not very useful.  I cannot remember an "English" fowler marketed on their website that gets the style right.

dave

[ShutEyeHunter]

Thanks for the advice, all.

I had looked at the Brooks site and they are all guns Id like to own/build.

I wasnt set on making a Griffin, just liked the Colrain Griffin barrel & thought there might be an interesting gun to go with it. Maybe there was something special about it that I might want to copy. 

I think ill wait for the Grinsdale book-probably several American fowlers that would accomodate the 16 ga barrel I like.  I grew up in PA, so maybe a PA fowler would be nice if the style fits the barrel

As for handling an original-I live in western Colorado. Only originals Im likely to run in to use 209s, pellets, and sabots ;-)

Again, thanks for the advice

[ShutEyeHunter]

In truth, the "Griffin fowler" barrel was more than likely a Spanish made octagon to round barrel that was on a Griffin gun. The 16 bore is a good choice as it is the largest bore made on that O/D.

Thanks for the 16 bore endorsement, James

The 20 in a C weight has extra metal and less shot. The 12 is a D weight and weighs 0.7 lb more. A lot of metal to carry around for a nominal 1/8 more shot than the sweet 16

[Mike Brooks]

Go ahead and use that barrel on any 18th century english gun you want. "Griffin" is just a marketing term used to sell the barrel profile. As James Rogers says above the barrel profile is most often associated with Spanish barrels which were used by many of the top English gun builders of the time. Italian and Turkish barrels were also used by the best English makers.

[kaintuck]

  72" 11 bore fowler.............

a run-down-to-the-corner, load.....then run back to the t'other end to aim and shoot!!!

tomtom

[jamesthomas]

 I have a 16 ga. Griffen fowler barrel in a stock from Tvm. I need to start work on it but standing for any period of time hurts the back something fierce.

[ShutEyeHunter]

I have a 16 ga. Griffen fowler barrel in a stock from Tvm. I need to start work on it but standing for any period of time hurts the back something fierce.

Yeah, I'm only good for an hour or two. Both of us need a better workbench;-)

Which stock from TVM?

[ShutEyeHunter]

Go ahead and use that barrel on any 18th century english gun you want. "Griffin" is just a marketing term used to sell the barrel profile. As James Rogers says above the barrel profile is most often associated with Spanish barrels which were used by many of the top English gun builders of the time. Italian and Turkish barrels were also used by the best English makers.

Thanks, Mike, that helps a lot. 

The English fowler on your site is really elegant & just what I was looking to recreate
http://www.fowlingguns.com/englishfowler6.html

Is that the 42" Colrain barrel?

[ShutEyeHunter]

72" 11 bore fowler.............

a run-down-to-the-corner, load.....then run back to the t'other end to aim and shoot!!!

tomtom

In addition to a range rod, with that gun, should I include a,stepladder in my build budget ?

[Mike Brooks]

I have a 16 ga. Griffen fowler barrel in a stock from Tvm. I need to start work on it but standing for any period of time hurts the back something fierce.

Having seen TVM's stock work before.......If that stock has more than a 5/32" web between the barrel and ram rod channel I'd pitch it and send the barrel to one of the barrel inletters that can do it properly. You'll never make a decent English gun with a fat web under the barrel. Dave Rase and Mark Weader do a proper job with this.

[Mike Brooks]

Go ahead and use that barrel on any 18th century english gun you want. "Griffin" is just a marketing term used to sell the barrel profile. As James Rogers says above the barrel profile is most often associated with Spanish barrels which were used by many of the top English gun builders of the time. Italian and Turkish barrels were also used by the best English makers.

Thanks, Mike, that helps a lot. 

The English fowler on your site is really elegant & just what I was looking to recreate
http://www.fowlingguns.com/englishfowler6.html

Is that the 42" Colrain barrel?

It's been a long time since I built that gun, but I'm guessing it probably has one of the "Griffin" barrels on it. Maybe the owner will confirm.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I agree with Mike with respect to TVM stocks if they are made like those used on their semi-custom guns.  The web of wood between the barrel channel and ramrod groove is much too thick, particularly for a fowler.  On that English gun I posted, the web is about 1/8" at the muzzle (just sufficient to pass the barrel key and the bottom of the lug is exposed in the ramrod channel) to 3/16" at the rear ramrod thimble.  It is not parallel with the bore of the barrel and the by thickening toward the breech it allows passage of the forward lock bolt plus it gives the forestock an elegant taper toward the muzzle.  The result is a definite impression that all of the mass in the gun is in the lock and butt area.  The stock along the barrel is almost egg shell thin.

dave

[James Rogers]

Go ahead and use that barrel on any 18th century english gun you want. "Griffin" is just a marketing term used to sell the barrel profile. As James Rogers says above the barrel profile is most often associated with Spanish barrels which were used by many of the top English gun builders of the time. Italian and Turkish barrels were also used by the best English makers.

Thanks, Mike, that helps a lot. 

The English fowler on your site is really elegant & just what I was looking to recreate
http://www.fowlingguns.com/englishfowler6.html

Is that the 42" Colrain barrel?

It's been a long time since I built that gun, but I'm guessing it probably has one of the "Griffin" barrels on it. Maybe the owner will confirm.

That is my son's gun and it has a 12 bore barrel on it. The 12 and the 16 are the best choices in my opinion if you are seeking a fowling piece. The 20 is too thick.
Coning the muzzle helps the overall appearance as well. Here are two 16 bore "Griffin" muzzles.

[Mike Brooks]

James,
 Are those modern barrels coned on the inside? If so, how far does the cone go and how well do they shoot?

[James Rogers]

Hi Mike,
Yep, two modern Colerain 42" Griffin 16 bores. The right one, you put on Bill Fox' gun and the left one I had Hash cone the bore. It is about an inch or so. I have seen originals that were anywhere from 1/2 to 1 1/2". This one is yet to go on a gun but Hash made some that patterned like a cylinder bore although not a choke in any sense of the word. Does not make for worse patterning. Hash even made a loading muzzle for some of his guns so the guys could shoot modern PRB in the coned barrels. I think he made one for Scott Sibley that way.

[jamesthomas]

I have a 16 ga. Griffen fowler barrel in a stock from Tvm. I need to start work on it but standing for any period of time hurts the back something fierce.

Having seen TVM's stock work before.......If that stock has more than a 5/32" web between the barrel and ram rod channel I'd pitch it and send the barrel to one of the barrel inletters that can do it properly. You'll never make a decent English gun with a fat web under the barrel. Dave Rase and Mark Weader do a proper job with this.

 I do plan on sending it back anyway, it was supposed to have at least a 2" butt but it only has a 1 and 3/4. I haven't measured the we thickness yet, I will do this and see what it is tomorrow.