Was there a connection between Isaac Haines and J. Grove?

[Ky-Flinter]

I'm sure most students of the long rifle are familiar with the 3 C-scroll cheek-piece carving of Isaac Haines that graces the dust jacket of the RCA volumes.  In RCA Vol. I, George Shumway said the Haines design was unlike any other Lancaster gunsmith's work.  In the more recent book, An Intimate Look at the American Longrifle, Davd Hansen wrote, "The beautifully designed three major C-scroll composition is Haines' and Haines' alone."  Here is a picture of the Haines carving.



I recently acquired a copy of an older book, The Kentucky Rifle by Merrill Lindsay.  In this book, a rifle by J. Grove of Hagerstown, MD is shown and the carving behind the cheek-piece consists of 3 C-scrolls that are very similar to the Haines carving.  The J. Grove rifle is the top one in this picture.



I wonder if there was some connection between Isaac Haines and J. Grove?  What do you think?

-Ron

[HIB]

Ron, You make  an interesting observation, however, these guns could have  been made as much as 45+ years apart.  Haines is an early maker as evidenced by the early characteristics of the example you use.  Surprising to me are the details of the carving forward of the cheek piece; They suggest a Womelsdorf connection or vise versa.

What I think has happened is Grove, by the time he was making guns, had seen a lot of other makers work. He liked Haines and he liked anyone else he admired. This is not to say he was a 'copier' it is only an evolutionary experience that most collectors find interesting when trying to make connections between schools.

I'll provide an example:  There is currently a J.P.Beck rifle that will soon be offered at auction. When I saw the detailed carving aft of the cheek piece on the gun being offered I immediately knew I had seen the basic design pattern before. The photo and the gun tied up a great many loose ends in the mystery surrounding John Bonewitz' apprenticeship. The timing is correct and the design elements are there. Beck was only 7 years older than Bonewitz and they lived 20 miles apart.

I'll probably never solve my issue Beck/Bonewitz but applaud your keen eye and interest in the Haines/Grove connection. Keep at it and don't give up.  Regards, HIB

[Dale Campbell]

Thanks for the question and answer. I asked this same question about 5 years ago, but no one had any comments.

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks HIB.  I appreciate the insight.

-Ron

[Dale Campbell]

Wasn't Grove's father (Graeff?) also a gunsmith? Could there be a connection there, either direct or common training?