Author Topic: Shipping with/with-out lock? (Read 6702 times)

Mark Elliott · « **on:** July 08, 2015, 12:10:45 AM »

I am sure that this post will result in lots of opinions, but I am looking for a couple that ring true on this question; is it better to ship a long gun with or with-out the lock in place? Does anyone have any real facts that bear on this?

I have always shipped with the lock in place. I understand the danger of the gun shifting quickly during shipping and the lock mortice being broken due to the cock or hammer hitting the inside of the shipping container. It has been a concern of mine. I use large wooden boxes that normally allow for two or three inches of space between the inside of the crate and any part of the gun, particularly the cock and toe. My thought has been that the gun is much weaker through the lock mortice with the lock out than it is in; and that overall I am better off shipping with the lock in place. This, however, is just a belief. I have no real facts to back that up. All my shipped guns have gotten to their destination without issue.

Keb · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2015, 01:28:41 AM »

I've shipped both ways, with & without. It hasn't made any difference except a little narrower shipping crate.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2015, 02:22:28 AM »

A smaller shipping box would be a positive.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2015, 03:20:10 AM »

Mark: I've always shipped lock in place. I use a wooden case, made from 3/4" spruce boards and 1/4" ply top and bottom, and I fill the box with rubber foam - camping stuff. I cut out the foam with a razor to accommodate the rifle, and there is padding 'fore and aft', side to side, and top and bottom. If the rifle shifts, the rubber foam absorbs the movement, I think, and no damage results. I've never had a rifle damaged from shipping this way...and I know I'm lucky, having heard the horror stories. Peter Alexander once told me he hand delivers his rifles from Canada to the US just to make sure all is good. I'm not that rich...yet.

kaintuck · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2015, 03:39:12 AM »

Shipped flinters and cappers w/o lock and with.....I just pack very well, and used paper for packing, never bubble wrap. There's no bad way, except NOT to wrap it snug, no wobbles!

I even shipped R/c planes.....I made styrofoam "boxes" outta the wall insulation mat'l, and then cardboard outsides.......then with everything packages and sealed.....I would stand on it.

Then it was ready for UPS.....

Tomtom approves this message.....

Marc

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2015, 05:20:54 AM »

Marc,

I don't think any of my boxes, as sturdy as they are, would protect a gun against me standing on it.

Majorjoel · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2015, 12:55:48 PM »

I too always ship long guns with their lock in place. I wrap the rifle end to end with bubble wrap, then wrap with same over and around the whole piece along it's length horizontally in small pieces overlapping each other. When boxed it is filled around tightly with pop corn peanuts and solid Styrofoam forms on each end. You can shake the package as hard as you like and it will not move. I recently bought a Kentucky rifle at auction and when it arrived I was shocked that it was not damaged! It was in a very thin card board box loosely packed with wadded news paper. The lock was not installed in the rifle but placed in a zip lock bag floating around in the same box! The package was not even taped together very well, as it had open gaps in the center and the lock could have easily been ejected during shipment. I consider myself lucky the piece was not damaged or missing it's lock!

KentSmith · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2015, 06:39:48 PM »

I may be wrong but I wonder for excise tax/fed regs if shipping with or without a lock in place changes whether it is considered a gun kit or not. Also I seem to remember Bill Kennedy telling me a while ago that NJ or maybe NY required wo lock for it to be considered a kit. I may be getting senile though and if so just ignore me.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2015, 10:49:04 PM »

kit......

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2015, 01:30:12 AM »

Quote from: KentSmith on July 08, 2015, 06:39:48 PM

I may be wrong but I wonder for excise tax/fed regs if shipping with or without a lock in place changes whether it is considered a gun kit or not. Also I seem to remember Bill Kennedy telling me a while ago that NJ or maybe NY required wo lock for it to be considered a kit. I may be getting senile though and if so just ignore me.

Kent, The Federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition shouldn't apply to any of us as custom builders. You have to make more than fifty guns a year to have to collect and pay that tax. That has been the case for many years. Now, there may be state or local regulations, but I have never been made aware of such regulations affecting muzzle loaders except for pistols in NJ. Correction on any of this is always welcome.

KLMoors · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:16:46 PM »

I forget where I learned this, but I think that any gun using a design prior to 1865 is not considered a firearm under the ATF's rules. Does anybody know about this for sure?

moleeyes36 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:13:14 PM »

Quote from: KLMoors on July 10, 2015, 06:16:46 PM

I forget where I learned this, but I think that any gun using a design prior to 1865 is not considered a firearm under the ATF's rules. Does anybody know about this for sure?

I'm not certain of the date the ATF uses; however, some states have much more stringent definitions that sometimes consider all ML's (even original antiques) firearms and regulate them accordingly.

Mole Eyes

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:33:42 PM »

Quote from: KLMoors on July 10, 2015, 06:16:46 PM

I forget where I learned this, but I think that any gun using a design prior to 1865 is not considered a firearm under the ATF's rules. Does anybody know about this for sure?

Regulated guns under the 1968 Gun Control Act are anything made after 1898 or using commercially available ammunition. This only regulates the interstate transportation of firearms. There are a number of federal, state, and local laws that regulate possession, transportation, and use.

The definition of a firearm can be different under each law. For example, with regard to possession, the Federal government and the Commonwealth of VA specifically exclude matchlocks, flintlocks and percussion ignitions by name as antiques(meaning not regulated by the applicable laws). Otherwise, you must be 18 or older to purchase or possess a firearm. You can purchase or possess an antique (all muzzle loaders) or air gun (not a firearm) at any age.

However, VA does regulate the transportation of flintlocks and percussion guns, with different rules for each, as to whether they are considered loaded or not. You may not transport a loaded firearm, antique or not, in the state of VA unless you have a concealed carry permit. Also, with regard to possession of a firearm by a felon, ALL firearms are included. That means that if you are convicted of a felony in VA, you loose your antique collection as well as any modern firearms! These are the regulations that affect me. So, these are the ones I am familiar with. The laws pertaining to you may be different.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:37:12 PM »

I should have also noted that under VA law, you cannot shoot across a road, within 1000 feet of an occupied dwelling without the permission of the owner, or hunt on Sunday. I believe that concludes all the VA laws with regard to firearms.

flehto · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:31:44 PM »

I've shipped many LRs w/ the lock in place in a TOW cardboard shipping container and all arrived w/o damage to either the LR or shipping container. I'm quite sure that TOW wouldn't have MLers shipped to their consignment sales in this container if damage occurred.

The advantage w/ a cardboard container is the lighter weight....which might engender more gentler handling. Seeing the LR packages are mainly shipped "on end", having both ends of the LR securely packed eliminates vertical movement resulting in broken wrists and other damage. I take special precautions w/ the possible vertical shifting of the LR in transit. .....Fred

Turtle · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2015, 03:57:17 PM »

Lock installed with hammer removed?
Just a thought

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:22:53 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 11, 2015, 03:57:17 PM

Lock installed with hammer removed?
Just a thought

Well at least someone is thinking.

jerrywh · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2015, 08:42:05 PM »

I never worry about the lock or the hammer. In my opinion the stock is a lot stronger with the lock installed. I have seen problems with the barrel being installed. At times the shipper will drop the crate or the box on end. When this is done the barrel is just like a hammer and I have seen the barrel brake out the back of the tang and stock this way two times.
I worry about shipping a gun in pieces because some people do not have the ability to put the gun back together as simple as it is to a good gunsmith. They will twist off a hammer screw or do other damage. Some people are dangerous with a screwdriver or a pair of pliers.
I always put at least three inches of foam between the gun and the crate on both ends

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2015, 09:05:20 PM »

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just a little slow, but why in the world would you ship a muzzleloader disassembled in any way shape or form? Every component in a muzzleloader strengthens the gun. Overtime you remove a part, you exposed delicate, and vulnerable wood parts to damage.
I have never heard of any laws regarding the prohibition of shipping complete muzzleloading firearms.

Hungry Horse

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Author Topic: Shipping with/with-out lock? (Read 6702 times)

kaintuck

Turtle