1 F

[northmn]

Had a conversation concerning loading a larger bore shot gun with another member of the forum.  One of the things I was reminded of was that in my earlier years of shooting 1F was recommended for shotguns.  In a lot of ways it makes sense as it would offer lower pressures and hence improve patterns.  Just curious.  I think most, like me do not want to ahve all sizes of powders around and maybe "get by" with one or the other.  I am not saying 2F is all bad, just curious if others remember or have used 1F.  Also don,t know about using it in a flintlock other than a Bess.

DP

[Mike R]

works good in our cannon  ...

[Candle Snuffer]

Well, a few years back at State Shoot I picked up some old Meteor 1FG (Made in Great Britain) black powder and test fired it in one of my .45 caplock rifles using a 55 grain load with a .017 spit patch and .445 round ball. 

I fired 11 shots in a row out of this rifle without swabbing between shots, and to be quite honest I think I could have kept on going a few more shots without swabbing but I packed it in for the day as the shoot was over and I was just testing the powder.

I was surprised at the accuracy I was getting from this powder and my load combination from the 36" GMB.  Truly an excellent powder and I picked it up for $6.00 a pound.  I wasn't going to pass that price up 3 years ago.

I don't know how Goex 1F works, I never used it.  I usually use 2f & 3f Goex only.

Still,,, if this Meteor black powder was available - I'd be using it.

I know this post probably is of no help, but that's my experience with 1F BP...

[Daryl]

I used it in a variety of guns, mostly ctg. guns along with a .58 Hawken and my 12 bore side by side ctg. gun.  I found it developes less velocity, with much recoil when you even things out.

In the 12, using 7 drams, it gave the same velocity as 152gr. of 2F, yet kicked like  the 7 dram, 191gr. load - no surprises there.

[northmn]

When I used the GOEX 1f I did not notice much if any recoil difference,  A couple or three of us tried it as a result of a BS sesion we had.  Some claimed they had less felt recoil.  If one looks at the older Lyman data, one sees that Curtis and Harvey used to deliver less velocity than GOEX.  Many loved it because it burned moister, but their test results were consistant across granulations.  In theory 2F would kick more than 3f at the same velocity levels because you are adding about 10-20 grains more weight to the charge. 

DP

[hanshi]

I've never used 1f but since black powder ejecta is right at 50% particulate matter, recoil would seem to go up dramatically with charge increases...probably regardless of grain size.  At least in my experience this has been the case.  Hard fouling would be a real problem for shooters in areas of low humidity, too, I suppose.  Having done all my shooting (up until recently) in the humid SE it luckily hasn't been much of a problem.

!Jozai Senjo!  "always present on the battlefield"

[Daryl]

I didn't find any difference in recoil with the 7 dram load, 2F or 1F. They both kicked hard. 

One thing about ICI 1F, is it looks like rounded chunks of rocks - very coarse. I still have a bit. It is very dense - ie: heavy for a given charge, and gives lower pressure and velocity than 2F. This is the 1F I used.  GOEX 1F looks like 4F in comparison to this stuff.

In the .50 3 1/4", a full 170gr.1F ICI would fit in the case along with a bullet, just like Elmer Keith said it would. I found that interesting.  He said that .50 3 1/4" was missnamed - it shouldhave been the .50/170Sharps.  I concur - but only with that powder.  About 155 to 160gr. of GOEX 2F would fit depending on the bullet used.

[northmn]

GOEX listed 1f as "musket powder" although I would think it would make a lousy priming charge.  I am really not so much championing the stuff as to see where it gets used.  Big BPC's like the 50-140 have been known to use it.  As I stated we used it in 12 bores.  In a 20 I think 2f would be much better.  I just ordered some powder and ordered 2f Swiss and no 1f, although I would bet Swiss 1f would be an excellent shotgun powder.  I also think the use of 1f is where the use of one measure for shot and powder came in (a very common old recommendation).  Most folks claim best patterns with about 10-20 grains less 2f which would be about equivalent to an equal loading of 1f. One of the other trap shooters liked the stuff and claimed less recoil using that combination.

DP

[Feltwad]

In the past I used 1Fg powder made by Curtis and Harvey in all my big bore guns  from the 4 gauge to the  10 gauge ,today I use coarse powder which is the equivalent to 2 Fg  which is not as good but that is all that you can by here in the UK for big bore guns.
Feltwad

Old powder tins



Big Bore Guns

[Mad Monk]

Back when I was buying original bp cartridges at gunshows I also picked up several shotgun shells and pulled them apart to look at the powder.

They were loaded with 1F rifle type powder.  That would be similar to GOEX's 1F powder.

A little aside here.
When you look at old cannisters of shotgun powders each powder company had a special label to get rid of rifle type powders that did not meet cartridge loaders specifications.  If you see a Du Pont Golden Pheasant can you are looking at this rifle type powder that was out of the rifle powder specs for cartridge loading companies.

E. Ogre

[Dphariss]

I once looked at a case of 58 minie ball cartridges that were loaded with a powder very close to FG.
So this might explain the "musket" thing from GOEX. Having shot FG in a Bess it is pretty slow and would need a lot of powder to make much velocity.

Dan