Barrel Wedges

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Hello all.  I am researching using barrel wedges since I have never done that before.  I know they are specific to certain styles of rifles and time periods and so therefore should be used. 

I do have a couple of questions:

#1. If not specific to a style, are they superior to pins? 

#2.  What is a retaining pin and how does it work?

Regards,

Coryjoe

[Dennis Glazener]

Cory,
Wallace Gusler cringes every time he hears me call them wedges. He says the correct term is draw loops/cross keys.

I used to own a flint VA McGilvary that had 4 draw loops/cross keys. That rifle was made near Winchester VA and I understand others in the area used these.
My rifle was a late flint but others will have to expand on time-frame and other areas where makers used draw loops/cross keys.

My rifle did not have escutcheons around the keys but many do. The cross keys in my McGilvary were just flat pieces of brass that were folded down 90 degrees to fit flush with the forestock.

What is a retaining pin and how does it work?

I had an English Fowler that had retaining pins. The wedge/key had a strip down the middle that is open (like a narrow milled out section) there was a pin in the stock that would allow the key to slide in and out of the draw loop, but not enough to allow it to fall out on the ground. I have not seen these on an American Longrifle, some probably had them but I haven't seen them, I think some of the Plains rifles had them.

Dennis

[Ed Wenger]

I think that in general, you'll find draws and loops were used more on Golden Age guns, but like everything else associated with Longrifles, you'd be able to find exceptions.  They were also utilized in a wide range of schools, but again, more so on later pieces.

I don't know if their "superior" to pins, probably a little easier to remove, and probably more of a personal taste.

The retaining pin you ask about is a pin that is driven into the stock, in the barrel channel, that goes through a slot cut in the draw.  This "captures" the draw and prevents it from being fully taken out of the stock.  Not sure that's explained too well, but hopefully helps.


           Ed

[Hungry Horse]

 While on this subject. I have a late percussion full stock muzzleloader that has draw loops made from sheet metal, not much thicker than your average inlay. The heads of the forward two  loops, are simply bent up, and the edges filed smooth ( these are clearly old replacements). The rear most draw is also sheet metal, but has a silver head pinned onto it. Which makes me believe it is original to the gun. 
 Have any of you seen this before? The maker is W.H. Brown, who worked in Pennsylvania, and California, among other places.
      Hungry Horse

               

[Ed Wenger]

Draws that I've seen on original pieces are much thinner than what are typically available commercially, today.  I've not personally seen the silver pinned head, but it wouldn't surprise me.


         Ed

[Tim Crosby]

 Coryjoe,

  If you decide to go the key route here are a couple of posts Taylor S. did that will help.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10152.msg95821#msg95821

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10171.msg95992#msg95992


 Tim C.

[rich pierce]

Some finer quality early long rifles have wedges that appear to be headless and thin.

[bama]

I did some restoration on a Bedford rifle that had a retangular head on the read barrel wedge or draw as some prefer. You could tell it had a retangular head because it was slightly inlet into the forearm leaving a shallow mortice.

The way that I made this wedge was to make the draw with a pin on it, make the head seperate and drill a hole for the pin on the draw and then revet them toether. I then silver soldered the joint. this worked very well. Sorry I can not find the picture of the finished draw.

I will see if I can get the owner to take a few pictures and post them.

Here is a picture of the mortice in the stock. Look at the left hand edge of the picture.

[James Rogers]

Here is a slotted key and you can barely see the top of the headless "nail" that rides in the slot to keep the key captured. This is on an English fowling piece.

[PPatch]

CoryJoe; For your question #1 asking if wedges are superior to pins, my take is this: They are more of a pain to install but more convenient than pins when it comes time to remove the barrel. I installed captured  wedges on my first, a lancaster, and each time I remove the barrel for cleaning I am thankful for the virtually painless process of knocking the wedges loose over fiddling with pins. Plus with pins you have to be extra careful of where each one came from on the stock, and, it is pretty easy to lose one.

dave

[James Rogers]

CoryJoe; For your question #1 asking if wedges are superior to pins, my take is this: They are more of a pain to install but more convenient than pins when it comes time to remove the barrel. I installed captured  wedges on my first, a lancaster, and each time I remove the barrel for cleaning I am thankful for the virtually painless process of knocking the wedges loose over fiddling with pins. Plus with pins you have to be extra careful of where each one came from on the stock, and, it is pretty easy to lose one.

dave

I agree but I would also add a hooked breech otherwise the effort is not worth it to me personally if I also have to unscrew a britch tang bolt. On my pinned guns, the barrels rarely come out anyway.

[flehto]

My first 5 LRs had wedges or keys and the wedges were made from 1/16 thick mild steel. The oval head was peened to a good sized oval and then filed and polished. The wedges in the upper fore end had the heads bent to conform to the  fore end angle by using a steel fixture. Discontinued using wedges because of the addt'l hours which some buyers didn't want to pay for.

The retaining pin can be in the angled flat of the bbl channel or behind the escutcheon, if there is one.

None of these LRs had hooked breeches so the tang screw, rear lock bolt were  removed along w/ the wedges being pulled back. I harden all screw heads so the slots don't get beat up. Simple way to remove a bbl for cleaning in a bucket of water.....Fred

 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Nice clean work Fred.

I built my A. Verner inspired rifle with a hooked breech, as it appeared to me in the images I have that the original had one.  The breech tang is also humped up a bit on that rifle.  I like slides rather than pins for ease of barrel removal, and I remove the barrel every time I clean it.  The tang and rear lock nail must be removed prior to lifting out the barrel whether it's pins or slides, so no biggie, and the lock comes off with each cleaning too.  However, I try to make the rifle historically accurate, pins or slides.