Old English lock ID requested....

[GANGGREEN]

I purchased a rifle at auction a few years ago.  I really like the rifle and got a good buy on it, but I've never known whose barrel or whose lock was on it and I was curious, so I took the barrel off today to learn that it is a GR Douglas barrel.   Took the lock off as well, but it wasn't/isn't signed or stamped anywhere and I'd presume that some of you here would be able to recognize the lock internals and let me know what it is.   It's a smaller English style lock with a narrow pan, a strong lock and it's sparky as $#*!. 

[Eric Kettenburg]

Don't know about the lock but holy cow that is some cheek!

[Daryl]

Maybe the owner liked a hard "cheek & chin weld".

[GANGGREEN]

Yeah, it's a bit prominent, but you don't notice it when you fire the gun, at least I haven't.   Admittedly, it's a .45 and I haven't shot anything remotely "magnum" out of it, so 40 or 50 grains and you hardly feel recoil anyway.   I can take it down at some point easily enough, but honestly, it's never bothered me.   I really do like the rifle, bought it at an auction and later was contacted by the grandson of the builder, who was thrilled to discuss the rifle and see some photos.  The man's name was Warren Martin and I think he lived in the upper midwest, but he's deceased now. 

[44-henry]

Looks a lot like one that I have that is marked Dixie Gun Works on the inside. I will check when I get back home and put a few photos up.

[GANGGREEN]

I'll be curious what you find out.  I've only ever messed around with one Dixie gun or lock and was rather disenchanted quickly by its performance.  Given that this lock is sparky as $#*!, I think I'll be a bit surprised to find out that it was/is Dixie, but I guess you run the risk or a very poor (or very good) lock with almost any of the manufacturers.

[Bob Roller]

If it had a point on the tail of the plate I'd say Chet Shoults who lived in Lapeer,Michigan was the maker.It was a good,basic lock and as far as I know,the tooling to make it is now owned by Log Cabin Shop.The plate/pan area must be slotted either by hand or a milling machine tp allow the installation of the frizzen.
Bob Roller

[GANGGREEN]

If it had a point on the tail of the plate I'd say Chet Shoults who lived in Lapeer,Michigan was the maker.It was a good,basic lock and as far as I know,the tooling to make it is now owned by Log Cabin Shop.The plate/pan area must be slotted either by hand or a milling machine tp allow the installation of the frizzen.
Bob Roller

I think the builder was from that area.  I can't recall exactly where, but maybe Detroit, so this wouldn't surprise me.  Thanks for the info though, I was hoping you might see this thread and have some thoughts.  (Edit:  Just looked at a previous discussion that I had with a family member of the builder and the builder of this gun was from Terre Haute, Indiana, so still possible/likely that he may have gotten the lock from Mr. Shoults and modified it slightly.

[44-henry]

Here is the lock I have. Not sure where I even got it but it looks to be the same as yours and is marked DGW. I wouldn't say it is high quality, but I could easily tune it up to be a decent lock which is probably what someone did with yours. Might be yours was built from a kit which could explain the lack of markings.

[44-henry]

Here are a couple photos from the 1979 DGW catalog. I am guessing it was the Dixie Early LancasterCounty Style Lock. The dimensions of mine match the catalog description when you consider the tail was rounded over. The finished lock sold for $29.95 than and the kit was 24.95.

Just for fun I looked through my drawer of old locks and found a few more that also appear in this catalog.

[GANGGREEN]

Interesting.  I see some differences, but also a lot of similarities there.  Odd that mine wouldn't have been stamped DGW though, because I think they did stamp most of their locks.  My frizzen has come loose after a lot of shooting and I'm going to need to address that at some point, but as I said before, the lock sparks like the hinges of $#*!, so I'm happy enough with it.

[44-henry]

Perhaps a few small differences, but still think they are essentially the same lock. Mine is probably a factory built and later modified lock, yours likely came from a kit. I would be a bit surprised if it didn't come from DGW.

[Bob Roller]

The center lock with the bright finish is the Chet Shoults Ketland and was probably the first modern times production lock.
Chet would sometimes polish these locks until they looked like chrome plating and after I started making them I would do
my best to polish them to that degree.Everything in these locks except the screws were cast steel and the cost in the mid
1950's was $5.87 cents.The Russ Hamm line of locks came along after the Shoults but they lacked quality control and were
made to meet a price.
Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi,
I believe those locks were made in Italy and I had some not marked DGW.  I may still have one or two in my lock bin purchased in the late 1970s.  I'll check today.

dave

[Bob Roller]

Hi,
I believe those locks were made in Italy and I had some not marked DGW.  I may still have one or two in my lock bin purchased in the late 1970s.  I'll check today.

dave

A  lot of Dixie Gun Works items were from Belgium and when I worked there in the Simmering Summer of 1958 I uncrated some of them.
Turner Kirkland was oriented to low end guns from where ever and that policy held solid until his son Hunter took over.Hunter,when he heard i could make a decent copy of the Stanton "4 pin" target rifle locks called me and asked how much 4 of these locks would cost and I told him
they would be $1000 for 4 and he ordered them.I called him when they were ready and he sent a check out that day.I told him that Turner would comeback from the dead if he knew that $1000 was spent for 4 locks but he wasn't worried about resale.Looking back,I THINK that was in 1990 and I made my first Stanton copy in 1987 and R.E.Davis bought it as a then one of a kind item and John Bivins also ordered one
for a project he was planning but no quality locks were being made of that style.Turner Kirkland had a small car collection with the Mode "T" Ford being featured.I told him they were the only car ever made that started at the bottom and then went down from there.I told him that when I was about 6 months old I was in a Model "T" with my mother when a steering failure caused it to over turn and I was thrown out on the pavement and was thought to be dead.I still have the same opinion of the Model"T".
Bob Roller