Author Topic: seven stars and a half moon (Read 17041 times)

Monty59 · « **on:** October 31, 2015, 12:22:25 PM »

Hallo, I'm fairly new here in the forum I live in Germany and I collect antique flintlock pistols, jaeger rifles and I have a few contemporary longrifles from well-known builder.
I own a antique flintlock pistol made by John Fox Twigg London and it is decorated with seven stars and a half moon on the barrel, lock, triggerguard and the buttcap also
a silver wire inlay behind the tang with stars and a half moon. Now I saw here in german by a gun auction a other flintlock pistol maybe the same time period 1760-1780
and also decorated with the stars and half moon but this time made by Grice London. Is the anyone who knows the meaning of this Symbols.
Sorry I do not know how images are used here.

Regards

Monty

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2015, 05:29:56 PM »

Hi Monty,

Welcome to ALR. Here is a link to a tutorial on posting pictures here.... http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0

I would very much like to see your pistol and I'm sure the other members would too.

-Ron

Molly · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2015, 05:53:20 PM »

Hello Monty! Far better people around to respond but here is my opinion on all such decorations.

Some seems to be common and yet have no specific meaning but at the same time some makers seem to use such decorations with specific meanings. And some may have been requested by the individual who was having the rifle made. I tend to feel the old makers produced firearms "to order" more so than a working inventory offered for sale thus if that is a correct assumption the meaning may be known only to the individual who had it made and maybe the builder. Centuries later all that is lost. I have 9 contemporary rifles made by three different makers. Of them, only one has any specific meaning to the decorative features and it was all done by the builder well before I even knew him. The neat thing about it is that after buying the rifle I was told what the meaning was and now it is almost like a secret shared between myself, the rifle and those I feel are worthy of knowing. Photos would be nice but factual knowledge of the specific meaning will almost now be a creation of ones imagination.

Monty59 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2015, 06:58:27 PM »

Hallo, and thanks for the help but I'm not a good computer expert I try the photobucket and have copy in my post here a link to the pics I hope it works for you

Monty

http://s392.photobucket.com/user/StampAct/library/?sort=2&page=1

Monty59 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2015, 07:09:06 PM »

Hallo again, here I have a link to the german auction called egun where you will see the pistol with the same decor on it.

Monty

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5647062

okieboy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2015, 07:49:33 PM »

Many times symbols serve more than one meaning, but the Moon commonly represents the goddess Artemis, who would be a patron of hunters.

T*O*F · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2015, 08:08:37 PM »

Quote

Is the anyone who knows the meaning of this Symbols.

They don't mean anything. The gunmaker was just showing off his skills.

Monty59 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2015, 08:24:11 PM »

Ok, but two different gun makers want to show her skills and than they do the same

Monty

oakridge · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2015, 10:49:31 PM »

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2015, 11:43:17 PM »

Take a look at what the pub "Half-Moon and Seven Stars" has displayed inside.
Look about a third of the way down the page: http://www.dover-kent.com/Half-Moon-and-Seven-Stars-Preston.html
Dennis

smart dog · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2015, 03:44:42 AM »

Hi Monty,
It may also be Masonic. The seven stars and half moon are found in some masonic iconography. Do an internet search for Masonic or Freemason symbols and the stars and moon come up in some accounts.

dave

Molly · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2015, 04:36:35 AM »

Today, tattoo artistry (if you want to call it that) uses many variations of moon and stars, incl 7 stars. A neighbor's kid has a half moon, several stars and an elephant on her side. So what does all that mean? She sure is no Mason. BTW Monty, that pistol in the link has "stars" all over it and I don't think I ever saw the moon. One of the sign boards in Dennis' post reflect the moon and North Star as a part of the big dipper. The other did not align the stars in the dipper form, even though there were seven stars. So maybe it's just a night sky panorama on a clear night. Probably won't see any with Mars or maybe Saturn however as the common man of that day never made a distinction.

So just make up a meaning and run with it!

PPatch · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2015, 05:15:07 AM »

Actually Molly you can find the North Star using the big dipper but one of the dipper's stars is not it. You just sight along the two stars at the end of the "cup" (opposite the handle).

dave

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2015, 06:44:57 AM »

People do different things with their weapons. Custom for sure. But to say they don't have meaning. When they have certain inlays put on. Seems hard to believe imho.

Monty59 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2015, 11:40:17 AM »

Hi guys, thanks a lot for all your reply. I think it's is not easy to figure out if it has a meaning or not. I have until now only two seen with these symbols.

Monty

Molly · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2015, 04:00:22 PM »

After another look, I saw the moon on the rear of the lock. Just to add to the puzzle seven stars in the night sky typically refer to Orion. And Orion was a hunter in Greek mythology. But then I don't normally associate hunting with a pistol of that type. But I'll bet the answer is in the heavens! Of course you also have "the seven sisters" which encompasses Orion but is a much bigger panorama. Maybe the owner had seven sisters! Have fun with it.

Sequatchie Rifle · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2015, 01:12:01 PM »

Some more explanations and certainly shows the Crescent Moon and Seven Stars is an ancient combination!

I suspect it's use on firearms during the late 18th and 19th Centuries was Masonic in nature.

http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ds18.html

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2015, 09:40:31 PM »

After reading the article. I would sure like to know what Mr. Parish put in his ale. Because it said he lived from 1627 to 1849. Now that's good stuff

Buck · « **Reply #18 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:29:30 AM »

Brother Sequatchie,
Indeed, the North.
Buck

woodsrunner · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2015, 03:17:40 AM »

I see nothing that indicates any Masonic connection what so ever. I've carefully checked my pubs on Masonic Symbolism to try to be as accurate as I can be in saying this. Perhaps a Brother much more knowlegable of symbolism will step forward and correct me!

In Masonry, and this goes back to the period that this pistol was built, and includes all of the area now considered to be Germany, a masonic symbolized star would have FIVE points alluding to the five points of Fellowship, or summary of a Mason's duty to a Brother master Mason. Note that the stars shown on this pistol have more than five.

The seven stars and half moon symbol seen on this pistol go far, far back into antiquity and has mixed meanings, and may be tied to Diana, Goddess of the hunt. The number "seven" is and has been sacred all the way back to Noah receiving "seven days notice of the flood", selecting clean beasts by sevens (not pairs!), 7 persons with him on the ark, etc, etc, seven ancient planets, seven alters burnt continuously before the god Mithras, and the list or examples goes on and on

This is my opinion....a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, but please know that I may be wrong and could be corrected by a Brother Master Mason more knowlegable in symbolism than I!

Buck · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2015, 03:46:57 AM »

Woodsrunner,
I think often that the symbolism or decor on long rifles are often mistaken for Masonic symbolism. To the Traveling Man it does mean something, but for most it doesn't have the same meaning. The moon and stars to me symbolize the North EAST where the corner stone is always set, where the chair is never occupied and where the superficial / uninstructed Traveler begins his journey towards the EAST.

I have not heard of Noah selecting clean beasts by sevens, interesting.

Travel Safe,
Buck

woodsrunner · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2015, 05:06:55 AM »

Bro. Buck!

I can think of one incidence here on Dennis' Site where Masonic Symbolism was "possibly pointed out", but it was not accepted as "probable"'. That was the "Born Free" rifle, and since its been several years since its been in the forefront, I forget much about it! But I know at the time there was no question in my mind that this piece had a Masonic Connection!

kaintuck · « **Reply #22 on:** November 20, 2015, 04:01:44 PM »

I'm with Molly......time looses meanings, terms change....like the Moses statue by michealangelo......I always thought it odd that he had horns......but finally it was cleared up....back 500yrs ago....horns represented "rays" emanating when he came from getting the Ten Commandments from God on the mountain!!!

I want to put a brass bleeding heart on the barrel of my last build......just because this is my last one, and I intend to just keep the rifle......

Marc n 😸

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2015, 12:55:49 AM »

Interesting thread.

Tim C.

Molly · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2015, 05:27:56 AM »

I have one rifle with specific features that actually did have a meaning for the builder. (Maybe I already said that??) But when I inquired of the builder if he put other things on his work which carried a specific meaning he just laughed, winked and said "sure"! But the point was there was no meaning. I like the bleeding heart, BTW.

News:

Author Topic: seven stars and a half moon (Read 17041 times)

oakridge

kaintuck