J.P. Beck rifle underway

[blackjack]

Just finished a TVM build and ready to tackle a new project.  So a friend and coworker was visiting and saw my almost done VA rifle.  On the spot, he told me he wants one, and probably wants TWO.  I have to apologize to all you professional rifle builders out there if it turns out I stole your business because this is definitely a case of a rookie trying to play big league ball with not much experience.  Still, the boy wants a rifle, I'll build him a rifle.  At least I'll make the best I can for him

Interestingly enough, friend's last name is Beck, and on looking into the old family Bible, there might actually be a connection to grandpa JP.  Whether that bears out or not, I hope to do the old gentleman proud .  I'm nowhere near ready to buy a block of wood and line it out for inletting,... not after one TVM kit.  But I am adventurous enough to try a Track of the Wolf kit.  So looked up their offerings, gave 'em my credit card, and off we go.

The Rice match barrel arrive with the 3/8" ramrod taped to it, along with a bag of sand cast brass parts, some shiny nosecap and thimbles and the obligatory bag of screws.  Still waiting on the lock (I understand Chambers has a bit of a backlog) and that all important perfectly inletted Pecatonia stock.  (At least I heard TOW gets all their wood from them.)  I'll post on here details of progress on the build for others who might be interested.  Questions, comments and even sharp witted criticism most welcome.  I can handle it.  $#*!, after Ranger School I can handle ANYTHING.

[rich pierce]

Good luck on your new build.  If going with a precarved stock I'd prefer to have it shipped with th barrel in it. Be sure to look carefully for any problems with warping or hairline cracks from shipping without the barrel. 

[frogwalking]

Good luck. However it turns out, I perceive a good learning opportunity here.

[kaintuck]

ahhhh.... a new convert is made~~

one becomes two
two becomes four
four becomes sixteen..........................

marc n tomtom

[frogwalking]

I sold my first rifle build in 1966 or 67.  I originally built it because I could not afford one of the few factory made rifles available at the time.  Ever since then, I have never built a gun to order, however, I also never had much difficulty in selling or trading a gun that I made.  This greatly simplifies my gun building and provides the cash for the next project.  The buyer can see the gun he is buying, shoot it, and decide if any of the imperfections bother him before he buys it.  I always have imperfections.  When building a gun for myself, I can deal with them, rather than worry if the customer will get upset.  I also learn a little with each build, therefore it is likely the next gun will be a little better than the one just finished.  This is just my .02 worth.  You do what works best for your situation.

[blackjack]

Thanks for that froggy.  I don't think I'll ever sell "Ole No. 1" as we've been jokingly calling it.  It is a great shooter but I'm a little too self conscious about the mistakes I know are there.  Still it was impressive enough to get my friend to "order" my next one.  I told him I'm gonna build it to his specifications (which actually I supplied) and if he doesn't like it on handling it, no problem I can keep it.  I want a 42" .45 cal PA rifle anyway so if I have to keep this one, no loss.

Started today on the brass for the Beck rifle.  Lotsa filing and emerying and have it pretty well in shape.  Stock and lock are still inbound so am kinda at a standstill until I can get the barrel, lock and trigger inletted. 

[Pete G.]

Study any examples you can find. There is no substitute for education. Some of the newer books with color photography are really good, although expensive. Also Peter Alexander's book goes into more detail than any other building guide out there, even though sometimes you must read a passage several times to figure out what he is trying to tell you. He has apparently handled many original rifles, and has a few measurements and observations that it would be difficult to come up with otherwise. He also has a couple of chapters on design and artwork that are invaluable.

Incidentally, scrapers will make short work of some of that brass cleanup. To finish off the brass, get some new files and save them for brass only. Once they touch steel, they are never again very good for brass.

[blackjack]

Well, I've got most of the parts assembled--just waiting on the stock.  Been studying examples in printed works and photo books and looked at more than a few at Dixons gunmakers fair and Landis Valley over in Lancaster.  I've got a good idea of what I want it to look like when I get done.  Been filing and sanding the brass to get it into shape.  The sand-cast brass parts were pretty rough.

In the meantime, i picked up two other stocks at Dixons fair, and a couple of barrels.  So I'm started on a Jaeger in .62cal with a swamped Rice 31" bbl, L&R Germanic lock and a Berks County rifle in .50cal with a 38" swamped Colerain bbl, Delux Siler lock.  And on top of that, I'm rebuilding an older .50cal rifle into a 20ga smooth rifle--mostly just fitting the bbl into the existing stock and tightening everything up.  As much as anything else, all these projects are giving me more practice before I attack the Beck rifle (for a paying customer I might add!)

Couple more lessons learned:

a good old pawn shop hand plane does a nice job on taking down wood, but the best tool is a Japanese shinto saw rasp.  You can get pretty precise working on the wood with that but it also can take wood off quickly as it has a coarse side and a fine side.  Also the micro planes--basically cheese grater style cutters sold at Woodcraft--do an excellent job of removing wood right exactly where you want it.  Good old rasps work fine too but take a lot longer to get the desired shape.

the grinding wheel may be quick at removing metal from buttplates, trigger guards and the like, but it cuts too fast and too deep to control.  Good old files are the way to go, followed by emery paper and then steel wool, even if it takes longer.  The results are always much better from my experience.

everything that you drill needs a dimple punched in the metal first and then a pilot hole of smaller size before you drill the real hole.

files wear out.  Big files seem to wear out more quickly than the little ones but now I'm in the habit of buying little packs of needle files whenever I see them just to have backups.

screws are easy to bugger up and hard to replace.  I loaded up on #5 and #8 screws at Dixons.  They were pricey there but now I have 20 or so backups of each type.  I havent' found a place to order less than 100, but at the rate things are going, I might break down and do that before too long.

Hope to start posting pics/comments on the Beck build as soon as it gets underway.

[Osprey]

Check Muzzleloader Builder Supply for the screws, plenty of sizes and small order lots. 

I assume you've looked at the Becks in the library, here, too?

[kaintuck]

a good old pawn shop hand plane does a nice job on taking down wood, but the best tool is a Japanese shinto saw rasp.  You can get pretty precise working on the wood with that but it also can take wood off quickly as it has a coarse side and a fine side. 
THEN.....when you feel REALLY like taking a chance.....a blank can be trimmed out in 15min with a Dewalt cutter with a 40gt sanding disc on it.....word of caution...wear a dust mask!

and do it outside.......not in the shop~ D U S T!!!!

files can be re-sharpened~rasps also......

sounds like your well on your way to being addicted to this 'hobby'......welcome!

marc n tomtom

[blackjack]

Yeah Osprey, been looking at the Becks on here as well as everywhere else I can see them.  I have a pretty good idea what my Beck v.2015 is going to look like now.  I just got onto MBS.  Last time I tried their web page was messed up, but all is in order now.  The York trigger for my smooth rifle is coming from them--due tomorrow according to the UPS track no.!  I'll check with them when I need more screws, etc.

Oh yeah, Kaintuck, this is definitely turning into the tomato that ate Cleveland.  I can't wait to get out to the shop each afternoon or evening as schedule permits.

[blackjack]

Well, FINALLY got my hands on a Beck rifle stock, a Pecatonia precarve.  Had to pick it up in person at the Log Cabin in Lodi, OH.  So now I have the parts for the Beck build,... however:

In the meantime, I built a smooth rifle in 20ga with a colerain 38" Oct to Round barrel, Jaeger style furniture and painted it blue like a trade gun.  It's my favorite gun at the moment and is my hunter for this year for all seasons!

Working on a Jaeger with a 28" Rice barrel in .62 and plan to make it as German looking as possible.  Still at the fitting the lock & trigger phase, but expect to be moving ahead on it in the next few weeks.

Also began the build of a Berks County rifle in .50 cal with a 38" Colerain B Weight barrel.  This and the Jaeger are my first guns from a tiger hunt stock, which is pretty basic.  Only ramrod channel is drilled and barrel channel cut (sort of) so there is a lot more work to do to get them going.

All the Beck rifle parts are standing in the corner waiting unitl I get to them.  Gotta finish up the rest of this first.

New lessons:  Log Cabin Sports in Lodi, OH is superb!  I'd highly recommend it for all build parts and a marvelous collection of Ohio made rifles--originals--to look over and evaluate.  Their helpful, knowledgable staff are also top notch.  Also, trying to work on three rifles at a time is probably a mistake.  I get confused on which one I'm doing which pattern of carving, etc. on.  Also the Berks is the first rifle I'm going to attempt some engraving on.  That's definitely a whole new skill set and doesn't come quick or easy, at least to me.  Also encountered different vent hole sizes for the first time.  I'm going with a 5/16 on the Jaeger since it's a bigger bore, but the 1/4" has always been fine on every other rifle.  Still not really sure there's a good reason to do that, but trying it and will report any new info.

Anyway, having a blast with these things.  Great way to stay out of the bars at night!

[gunmaker]

I've got a box of cheap hardware bolts & screws I use on guns & don't put in the good ones til she's ready to go.  and I usually caseharden those with kasenite to help save the slots......Get us some pic's when you can....Tom

[blackjack]

Okay, it's been a while since the start of the Beck rifle.  But it's now finished and will be delivered next week.  It's the one on top in the pic below.



It would up being a 50cal with a 38" swamped barrel, Deluxe Siler flintlock, Bivens trigger and brass furniture.  Nice shooter.  This was my first foray into carving and engraving and you experts know I have room for improvement.  But it was fun to build for sure.





For reference, these are my first four builds.  Top is the Beck rifle, second is a TVM kit Virginia rifle, third is a 20ga smooth rifle in blue milk paint, and the bottom is my Jaeger, .62 cal deer rifle.

[rich pierce]

Blackjack, you sure are turning them out.  When you say the top rifle is a JP Beck, what do you mean?  The stock and patchbox look Lehigh. Is there a JP Beck with that style of patchbox and architecture?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

At the risk of sounding mean, I do not see anything that resembles a Beck rifle, let alone a JP Beck.  You are to be commended for undertaking these builds, but you have diverged enormously from specific maker's work.

[smart dog]

Hi Blackjack,
Good on you for jumping in and getting to work.  I think you would benefit greatly from attending the NMLRA gunsmithing workshops.  You asked for critiques so let me give you some general suggestions.  I won't dwell on school or style just basic longrifle gunstocking.  Below is a list of things to consider:
1.  make sure your inletting and shaping tools are scary razor sharp. Sharpen them to the point you think they could shave your arm and then sharpen a little more.
2.  make the web of wood between the barrel channel and ramrod groove no more than about 3/32" thick.  That will slim the gun down and allow the ramrod to tuck up snug against the muzzle without a gap showing.
3. make your lock panels much narrower around the lock plate.  A width no more than 1/8" will improve the shape of the lock area and wrist.
4. your inletting needs to be improved.  I have a small selection of very small flat chisels that I use to cut the outline of my inlets.  They are beveled on both sides. I use them in the following way - I anchor the piece to be inlet in position on the stock (screw or glue), then I closely trace the outline with a razor sharp carving knife much like an X-Acto.  I scribe lightly because I only want the line to guide my inletting chisels.  I remove the piece and use my chisels to vertically stab in the outline using the scribed line to guide the chisel.  The chisel cut down but the bevel on the outside pushes the wood away from the inlet.  After fully outlining the piece, I use flat chisels and shallow gouges to remove the waste wood from the inlet carefully back cutting into my stabbed outline.  Once the waste is removed and the inlet edges cleaned up, I insert the inlay to check fit.  The inletting chisels push the wood away from the inlay and mke it easy to insert the inlay into position.  Once it is permanently in place, wetting the wood will swell the edge pressing it tightly into the inlay.
5.  practice carving before attempting another gun and study images of Rococo and Baroque woodcarving in books and the internet.

Attending the NMLRA gunsmithing workshops will help get you far down the road.

Good luck,

dave

[greybeard]

I believe the reason that he refers to the gun as a Beck is because the chap who ordered the guns surname is Beck???
    Bob

[Acer Saccharum]

The OP's post says the customer is Beck.

[rich pierce]

Makes sense now.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yes, I didn't read the original post as carefully as I should have either.  But the title mislead me...

[blackjack]

Thanks to all for the observations.  I know that top rifle looks more like a lehigh/berks and I'll take that.

I just got into this thing this year and have enjoyed it immensely.  I have built four rifles since June.  That's a pretty fast rate I keep being told, but if you look at the rifles closely, you'll see there have  been a LOT of mistakes and a LOT of corrections and nothing like the smooth polished rifles some of the boards members are producing.

But they're all good shooters, which was my first priority, as I learn and get into this.  Dave, thanks especially for the detailed list of suggestions.  I'm at the point I'm ready to slow down and pay better attention to detail.  I'm looking into an NMLRA workshop before my next build, which I'm already supplied for.

Again thanks for all the observations.  All are studied and taken to heart.

[Nate McKenzie]

I admire your attitude.