Barrel reconditioning?

[sean69]

So I got this "Italian" cap lock at an auction thinking if I got it cheap enough I could use the barrel [dunno how many of you guys are from Canada, but getting a barrel shipped up here gets expensive!] - which it was $125, it was marked as a .45 calibre barrel [it's 7/8" straight octagon]

Then the disappointment most of us have haad with auction stuff; looking down the bore I thought it might be a really dirty smooth bore.

Nope.

REALLY REALLY rotted rifled bore, basically no rfling left, so I was wondering what to do with it.

1. Try and ream it out to a larger caliber? - No idea on how to do this or what tools will be needed.

2. Cut it into thirds, ream them out and use them as pistol barrels? [again to a larger caliber] - not sure I can do this on my lathe or not.

is it possible to ream it/them out to larger calibre then rifle them? what is involved with that?

any other suggestions? [other than "scrap pile" ]

-thanks
-sean

[bob in the woods]

Really , really rooted bore , eh ...[couldn't resist , being from Canada too]  Sounds like a perchlorate type powder and lax cleaning . I would be hesitant to use it since you don't know how deep that corrosion/pitting goes.
You could end up doing a lot of work for nothing.  I have made my own reamers and do the work by hand, so can't advise you re your lathe.

[T*O*F]

2. Cut it into thirds, ream them out and use them as pistol barrels?

It's either that or junk it.  Then you also have to worry about breechplugs depending on how much you have to ream them.  Or you can take them to a blacksmith and have him make you a couple of pipe hawks.

If you're worried about the cost of postage, then you'll croak when you see how much to reline or rerifle to a larger size.

[sean69]

2. Cut it into thirds, ream them out and use them as pistol barrels?

It's either that or junk it.  Then you also have to worry about breechplugs depending on how much you have to ream them.  Or you can take them to a blacksmith and have him make you a couple of pipe hawks.

If you're worried about the cost of postage, then you'll croak when you see how much to reline or rerifle to a larger size.

No - I would be looking to do the reaming/rifling myself.  Something new to learn also on something that is darn close to scrap wouldn't be a great loss if it didn't work out. 

Not worried about breech plugs, once the bore is done I wouldn't expect to find one that "fits" anyway ~ I can make a breech plug fairly easily.

As to postage, oh heck no, that's the least of my cost!! Our dollar is so bad right now I'm paying close to +30% in exchange alone. THEN I get slammed with tax [+13% on the CONVERTED value] and duty at the border PLUS the cost of shipping [in USD, +30% again]

a $200USD barrel will cost me about $325 quite easily

-sean

[sean69]

Really , really rooted bore , eh ...[couldn't resist , being from Canada too]  Sounds like a perchlorate type powder and lax cleaning . I would be hesitant to use it since you don't know how deep that corrosion/pitting goes.
You could end up doing a lot of work for nothing.  I have made my own reamers and do the work by hand, so can't advise you re your lathe.

oh really? by hand eh? can you elaborate a little?
[what province are you in? I'm in Ontario ~ Oshawa 40min East of Toronto]

I'm really thinking the pistol barrel is the better plan, lower pressures & lighter loads - feels safer. Plus I'll get 3 kicks at the can

[L. Akers]

I think I would ream it out to the point that the bore is clean and then see what you've got left.  A lot of those Italian barrels were actually .445 bore diameter with very shallow rifling so you may not have to go as large as you might think.

[hudson]

Another thought, if any rifling left mite be able to recut it. Lots of information out there on that.

[Hungry Horse]

 Depending on who in Italy made the original barrel, it might just have had really shallow rifling to begin with. I have a Dixie Gun Works York rifle that has rifling in the four to five thousandths range, and it hasn't been shot that much. If there is enough rifling to hold a freshening guide, I'd freshen it out.

      Hungry Horse

[sean69]

I had scrubbed it for nearly 20 min with a brass brush and flushing with WD40 ....  even after that it was still puking out rust.  no large flakes though.   rifling, is worn/corroded completely away in spots "eveident" in others.  certainly not a 'freshening' candidate.  [I did google that one up]

who in Italy? where? no idea, no marks other than calibre & "Italy" [well "black powder only"] on the barrel. it was actually screwed to the stock from the bottom [through holes in the pipes] rather than pinned or dovetailed.

[bob in the woods]

If you do a search re reaming a barrel, you will find information on how to do it.  I used a twisted square reamer
and a plain square reamer [backed with a wood spacer]  I drove the reamers with either a hand drill or a brace.
depending on my mood    The twist on the reamer is opposite to the twist on a drill bit. John Laubach has a video out re forging a barrel and making the reamer etc.

[Eric Krewson]

A square of a scotch bright pad coated with Soft Scrub from you kitchen will get the rust out of your gun to let you know where you are at. I sent you a link to see what I did.

[J Henry]

  Same with" Bar Keepers Friend",,, little Dawn and BKF.  I use this and a section off a Soft Sanding sponge cut to size,comes in different grit,,then hot water ,then  Remington Teflon spray to slow down rust,,Secret ,, shoot more often  ,,, that way you clean more often,,,little rust that way...

[Daryl]

I would simply discard it as it sounds like a huge waste of time - for any use.

[David Veith]

If you have the time and will power. You might be able to freshen it. A source for freshening. Basicly you pour a lap with a cut worked into.  It has been a long time since I have seen it done. Had a friend that did it. Who has past on.

[Dphariss]

So I got this "Italian" cap lock at an auction thinking if I got it cheap enough I could use the barrel [dunno how many of you guys are from Canada, but getting a barrel shipped up here gets expensive!] - which it was $125, it was marked as a .45 calibre barrel [it's 7/8" straight octagon]

Then the disappointment most of us have haad with auction stuff; looking down the bore I thought it might be a really dirty smooth bore.

Nope.

REALLY REALLY rotted rifled bore, basically no rfling left, so I was wondering what to do with it.

1. Try and ream it out to a larger caliber? - No idea on how to do this or what tools will be needed.

2. Cut it into thirds, ream them out and use them as pistol barrels? [again to a larger caliber] - not sure I can do this on my lathe or not.

is it possible to ream it/them out to larger calibre then rifle them? what is involved with that?

any other suggestions? [other than "scrap pile" ]

-thanks
-sean

Its undoubtedly been used used with a chlorate "replica" powder which is very destructive. I would consider it junk. Unless you can ream and rifle it yourself. A rebore will likely cost more than 1/2 the cost of a new barrel then the shipping, insurance. AND many of these repros have screw holes and/or dovetails too deep for me to trust taking this out to 50 cal.  Could have pits so deep that they are not repairable by boring. Might be able to make pistol barrels. It will need to be carefully bore scoped after reaming.
Its obvious that many here don't understand how much damage this replica powder can do in a short space of time. The stuff can and has, eaten "crawdad holes" in parts to the point that they leak power gases. This was foretold probably 15-20 years ago by a friend and it HAS happened.
The stuff is probably still eating the steel even after the brushing and WD40.
This is why I would NEVER recommend anyone buy something like this without inspection, close inspection, since even if the bore looks OK to the neophyte the breech may be rotted, or they don't recognize what the frosted look of the bore means since without magnification in the early stages it can pass as "ok". People buy them for whatever reason. They can't get real black so they use a highly corrosive substitute, the bore probably rots in a week or month so it can't be loaded and they the sell it to a pawn shop or online etc etc.
Dan

[Bob Roller]

So I got this "Italian" cap lock at an auction thinking if I got it cheap enough I could use the barrel [dunno how many of you guys are from Canada, but getting a barrel shipped up here gets expensive!] - which it was $125, it was marked as a .45 calibre barrel [it's 7/8" straight octagon]

Then the disappointment most of us have haad with auction stuff; looking down the bore I thought it might be a really dirty smooth bore.

Nope.

REALLY REALLY rotted rifled bore, basically no rfling left, so I was wondering what to do with it.

1. Try and ream it out to a larger caliber? - No idea on how to do this or what tools will be needed.

2. Cut it into thirds, ream them out and use them as pistol barrels? [again to a larger caliber] - not sure I can do this on my lathe or not.

is it possible to ream it/them out to larger calibre then rifle them? what is involved with that?

any other suggestions? [other than "scrap pile" ]

-thanks
-sean

Its undoubtedly been used used with a chlorate "replica" powder which is very destructive. I would consider it junk. Unless you can ream and rifle it yourself. A rebore will likely cost more than 1/2 the cost of a new barrel then the shipping, insurance. AND many of these repros have screw holes and/or dovetails too deep for me to trust taking this out to 50 cal.  Could have pits so deep that they are not repairable by boring. Might be able to make pistol barrels. It will need to be carefully bore scoped after reaming.
Its obvious that many here don't understand how much damage this replica powder can do in a short space of time. The stuff can and has, eaten "crawdad holes" in parts to the point that they leak power gases. This was foretold probably 15-20 years ago by a friend and it HAS happened.
The stuff is probably still eating the steel even after the brushing and WD40.
This is why I would NEVER recommend anyone buy something like this without inspection, close inspection, since even if the bore looks OK to the neophyte the breech may be rotted, or they don't recognize what the frosted look of the bore means since without magnification in the early stages it can pass as "ok". People buy them for whatever reason. They can't get real black so they use a highly corrosive substitute, the bore probably rots in a week or month so it can't be loaded and they the sell it to a pawn shop or online etc etc.
Dan

Use it for concrete rebar. When the floor for Bill Large's shop was poured in 1958 we put about 400 old junk barrels into it as well as regular rebar. Still there.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Sean:  you're getting good advice here.  I'm in Prince George British Columbia - not much help to you, I know.  But I recognize the cost of dealing with the USA.

Your rifle needs to be rebarreled.  There is no saving the old one.  I wouldn't trust it even with pistol loads.  It's not worth the potential danger. 

[doug]

    Since you have a lathe, I would scrub the idea of using it as a rifle and consider making it into a percussion smoothbore.  The downside is that a 7/8 barrel makes it pretty limited in what guage you can go to.  The photo below is of a TC Hawken rifle that I have made lighter because it was too heavy for the owner.  Basically take the under rib off and put a wedding band up near the nose cap then turn the front half of the barrel to a long taper.  From the wedding band back make a 16 side transition to octagonal.  Before you go that far, I would bore the barrel out using a D bit or series of them that you pull through the bore rather than push.  A couple of cautions in that regard.  Chamfer both ends of the D bit because if it breaks off and you have to drive it out backwards, you do not want sharp corners digging into and jamming in the barrel.  Make the portion that attaches to your pull rod into a 1" long pilot and I would strongly recommend silver soldering the rod and the reamer together at least until you get to where you can use a 3/8" thread.  I mount the barrel on the cross feed and the "drill" in the chuck of the lathe and it is important (extremely important) to clear the chips often.  I would not exceed about 20 thou increase with each pass and 10 thou would be safer.  You can also stop drilling before you hit the breach plug threads and assuming the threads are good, still use the original breach plug.  Final though is that I would leave 30 to 40 thousandths wall thickness at the muzzle.

cheers Doug

[shootrj2003]

If I had a lathe and the knowledge( training) in its use,which you seem to have,it is but one more step forward  to bore it out smooth and use it like that,or see how far you need to clean it up and have it rifled to the next size bore,either way you gain by learning,eh,heck if I had a lathe but NO training I would try to figure it out,rifling is no more than a screw thread with a really slow twist and flat topped thread or flat bottomed grooves and can't a lathe cut pretty much any thread by gear changes and tooling? ( this probably shows lathe guys what I don't know about lathes) but I feel it is seemingly possible with the right bore bit etc. forgive my lathe ignorance- I'm actually better at hitting things with hammers

[sean69]

If I had a lathe and the knowledge( training) in its use,which you seem to have,it is but one more step forward  to bore it out smooth and use it like that,or see how far you need to clean it up and have it rifled to the next size bore,either way you gain by learning,eh,heck if I had a lathe but NO training I would try to figure it out,rifling is no more than a screw thread with a really slow twist and flat topped thread or flat bottomed grooves and can't a lathe cut pretty much any thread by gear changes and tooling? ( this probably shows lathe guys what I don't know about lathes) but I feel it is seemingly possible with the right bore bit etc. forgive my lathe ignorance- I'm actually better at hitting things with hammers

the problem with a lathe is boring/drilling anything more than an inch or two deep, you need to get [or make] some kind of special tooling even trying to sort out a boring bar that will be rigid enough to clean up a 10"x 0.45" bore will be a neat trick in itself!

I have a feeling all I will be doing on the lathe is cleaning up the faces & making the breech plugs. Rest sounds like hand reaming. [that sounds rude!]

If that happens at all - I'm gonna hit it with a hacksaw tonight. The screw holes that were used to secure the pipes to stock to barrel are about 1/3 & 2/3 down the barel. I'll cut out those sections, cut them lengthwise & actually "see" what I have ~ condition wise ~

[Rob]

Hi, i have been down this road and reaming out the tube is no biggie at all if you have a lathe and know how to use it
If you  have trade training then you are good to go ..I have made reamers which are easier than the square ones
Give me an email   oldtrobh@gmail and I will send you some pictures and tell you how I did it  ..just part of our education .. Rob

[sean69]

Hi, i have been down this road and reaming out the tube is no biggie at all if you have a lathe and know how to use it
If you  have trade training then you are good to go ..I have made reamers which are easier than the square ones
Give me an email   oldtrobh@gmail and I will send you some pictures and tell you how I did it  ..just part of our education .. Rob

thanks, will do!

no trade experience, but my education is mechanical engineering, so I used them all through high school and college....  been about 20 years though. [it came back quick!! - the math, not so much ]

[doug]

creating a smoothbore for an already bored ( and pitted) barrel is not that difficult.  By pulling the D bit through the bore, it follows the old hole and comes out just as straight as the original bore.  You need to go up in small jumps to avoid overloading the fastening of the D bit to the main shaft you are pulling on.  That main shaft can be mild steel.

On my lathe at least I can only cut as slow as about 8 threads per inch and it would take a fair bit of calculating (more than my ability) to create a gear combination that would cut a slower thread.  I wish I knew how to cut about 2 threads per inch so that I could make the breach for a Ferguson rifle.  Relative to one turn in 68 inches or so that you would use for rifling, I think you would need to rig up an angled bar on one side of the bed of the lathe and use that with a rack and pinion set up on the cross feed to turn the rifling cutter

cheers Doug

[shortbarrel]

I wish I had the ability to post pictures on this site. I have all kinds of equipment to make non production barrels from round bar stock. Made many barrels over the years. The last barrel I made was about six months age, it was a 60 cal. matchlock barrel with a deep swamp. I also use this equipment to reclaim old wrought iron barrels. Dennis posted a few pictures for me a year or so back, I sure hope I thanked him.