RCA 17 attribution ?

[Tom Currie]

Art Riser's Comtemporary Site has a picture of 4 rifles we all know and love and was surprised to see RCA #17 listed as William Antes. Does anyone know the basis for this attribution ?  Photo is dated March 15th.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/Sa8tkTdg06I/AAAAAAAAK5U/rGeGCCjhEU0/s1600-h/Big+haul_crop.jpg

[mr. no gold]

Number four came out of an old collection and has long been attributed to William Antes. It also has the Roman numerals for 1756 in a cartouche on the barrel. It is a smooth gun with a half round, rather short barrel. It does not sure that have a signature as such, but does have letters along with the numbers on the top flat. The piece has no patch box and rather simple carving. The toe is a separate piece of wood (walnut?) which is affixed to the stock.
Oh yes; one more thing, the gun is half stocked in what is probably a plain maple.
I have seen it several times and always ejnoy looking at it.
Dick

[Eric Kettenburg]

 

[rich pierce]

Gossip offered here, not knowing the inside scoop- I heard the signature or markings on the barrel are suggestive of Antes, it's believed to have Bethlehem roots, and the sideplate could be Antes and...there's only so many early makers from Bethlehem at that timeframe, etc. and it's not believed to be Albrecht, etc.

[Stophel]

It's one thing to attribute the gun to the Bethlehem/Christian's Spring group, it's another to attribute to Antes....based apparently on the trefoil behind the tang, which is certainly similar to the signed Antes gun (the one with the mask thumbpiece...taken from the buttcap of a pistol???), but in my mind is hardly conclusive, and also the sideplate, but it's a pretty generic sideplate design.

There is a great desire to put attributions on guns.  I think probably to raise the selling price...

Half stocked with a short barrel?  While I have not seen the gun in person, all the photos I have of it show a full stock with a normal length barrel.

[Eric Kettenburg]

The piece does seem - when looking at details - to fit into the assumed Bethlehem/CS grouping of survivors.  How one could say any more than that a bit beyond me.  I am firmly convinced the walnut both cheek and toe were add-ons at a later date when the gun was modified by lowering the comb.  The whole buttstock was moved downwards, in other words.  The original arm as I believe it to have been constructed was very professional and competent, not hokey.  The barrel markings are open to interpretation - I do believe they represent a date - BUT, it sure does look like a European barrel so maybe it's being reused?  The sideplate and tang carving are *reminiscent* of a signed Antes rifle, a rifle that was probably made at least 15 (if not more years later).  It's a GREAT piece, in fact looks dramatically better and more appealing in-hand as opposed to George's old photos which always rendered it kind of flat and uninspiring.  Personally I think it's one of the sketchier attributions going. 

[rich pierce]

Glad to know the architecture was not like that originally as the comb line seemed odd to me.

[Stophel]

You can see the original pin hole for the tenon on the rear of the triggerguard.  It's pretty obvious that it was moved down for the walnut addition.