Lolliepop tang inlet problems

[gsbell26]

I've screwed up my inlet job of a lollipop tang, at the round end. Any suggestions for a fix?
Steve

[Dave B]

It would help to post a picture of the tang so we can see whats the situation. Long tangs with lolly pops can be a challenge with the bending of the tang causing the wood to pull away from the lolly pop section as the part goes deeper into the wood.  So unless you take steps to file the metal with the proper Draft so you can inlet it with out getting gaps as the inlet proceeds. I refer to the up hill side of the lolly pop. The tang must go straight down into the wood with the contour of the round portions edge filed so the metal has a perpendicular or small draft angle to keep the inlet so it is going straight down relative to the bore axis not the wrist axis. This is where a picture would be much more help than my description.

[Nordnecker]

There might be a tutorial on this. I remember seeing a picture that showed the necessary draft and why it needed to be like that. I chickened out of inletting it in one piece. Again, someone had a picture of a lollipop tang that was made in two pieces joined at the back of a tapered tang. And although it was noted that most originals are one piece, I left mine in 2 pieces so that the long extension and lollipop stayed in the stock when the barrel was out. The front tang bolt pressed the join together. I was able to inlet the lollipop first and work forward. Not PC but OK. If your gap isn't too big, maybe you could pein it out and re inlet it.

[RichG]

search "over the comb tang" might help to explain.

[David Rase]

Here is the link to Ken Guy's tutorial.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8143.0
David

[Mark Elliott]

For small gaps around the lollipop or screw location,  I have taken the tang back to the forge and hammered the lollipop out a bit to fill the gap.    Otherwise,  you will have to glue in a patch.   Keep in mind that over the comb tangs were done to show off and require advanced inletting skills.    Over the comb tangs are easy to forge and a major pain in the rear to inlet (and remove).
 

[Acer Saccharum]

you can hammer the  steel flatter, increasing its size; if you are lucky, you can hammer it big enough to fill any gaps.

be extra careful not to stretch the thin tang part...or the lollipop will go past its inlet.

[gsbell26]

Thanks for the suggestions and tutorial link.  I will glue in bit of wood to repair it.  I'm not doing the long over the comb inlet, just the regular relatively short tang....the long one is clearly beyond my abilities.
 
This gun is really going to stretch me and my abilities. It's a southern mountain type. .40 cal. 42" swamped A barrel....inletting that has been a real job. But I've long admired this style of rifle, their graceful lines and simplicity.
Maybe I can post some pictures, once I learn how to do that.

Steve

[Mark Elliott]

you can hammer the  steel flatter, increasing its size; if you are lucky, you can hammer it big enough to fill any gaps.

be extra careful not to stretch the thin tang part...or the lollipop will go past its inlet.

This is true and I have filled in inlets to compensate.    The thing is that the fill is hidden.    It is better than a patch that you see. 

[frogwalking]

Thank you all.  I am about to begin a second Tennessee rifle.  This one has a lollipop tang.  I would have made the same mistake on inletting.  I have made two no. 6-32 tang bolts.  How do you guys handle the issue of too big bolt holes weakening the tang.

[Mark Elliott]

I don't use bolts.  I use wood screws and typically #8 s.   The one in the large tang is the important one, and there should be plenty of metal there for it.  The others just hold the tang down.  I leave very little metal around the screw in the lollipops.

[jerrywh]

 Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

[Dennis Glazener]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

Just for show, those old mountain gun makers took pride in their work and once you inlet one of those tangs you could show it off to others.

The first one of those I saw in person was on a rifle that Don Stith owned, I am sure if I had shut my eyes then ran my hand up and down that tang I could not have told him where the wood/metal joined! Beautiful work.

Dennis

[Mark Elliott]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

Jerry,

There is no logic.   It is just gunsmiths showing off.    It is the backwoods version of gold inlay.

[Jim Kibler]

It looks cool.  If you're looking for logic in gun design there's a WHOLE lot that doesn't fit.  Think about the very basic of what is required for function and ease of production.  I guess aesthetics has something to do with this....

[jerrywh]

 Got it.  It's a talent show. Good.

[L. Akers]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

It locks the barrel in place.

[Pete G.]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

Sort of like the logic of building flintlock rifles in the 21st century. Wonder what Dickert and Beck would think of that

[WadePatton]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

A "full length" tang and OTC are different in my eye.

The tang that runs for most of the wrist is "normal" or "full length" for what I'm interested in.  Properly done the strength of the metal compensates for the weakness of the design and grain run-out that might be found there.  Look at old guns.  Look for repaired old guns.  Most of those repairs are of broken wrists.

A thick clunky wrist is no good answer-unless your style is thick and clunky-no offense. 

OTC (over the comb) is quite obviously "showing off" just like carving and engraving. 



source Case Antiques auction.

[Jim Kibler]

Don't think a tang extending down the wrist does anything for strength...

[Joe S.]

I would think the tang extending down the wrist and the trigger plate on the other side would help add a little strength. Metal is stronger than wood is it not?Although the movies of folks swinging their shooting iron like baseball bats is BS,your only doing it one time.

[Bob Roller]

Could someone explain the logic of having a tang like that anyway???

A "full length" tang and OTC are different in my eye.

The tang that runs for most of the wrist is "normal" or "full length" for what I'm interested in.  Properly done the strength of the metal compensates for the weakness of the design and grain run-out that might be found there.  Look at old guns.  Look for repaired old guns.  Most of those repairs are of broken wrists.

A thick clunky wrist is no good answer-unless your style is thick and clunky-no offense. 

OTC (over the comb) is quite obviously "showing off" just like carving and engraving. 



source Case Antiques auction.

The Hoffman&Campbell rifle credited to Francis Parkman and once owned by Tom Dawson was badly broken thru the wrist/grip section in spite of the long trigger bar. Tom took it apart and there were 19 separate piece in that broken stock.

Bob Roller