Acraglass

[WadePatton]

I think a newer builder should have a little slack cut if he found the need to use a little epoxy. I'd be pretty peeved if I found a bondo job on a custom I bought from a "experienced" builder.

Certainly, it's a "repair" in the case of the new maker, and lets him gain experience by making the mistake(s) as well as the repair.  Now and then a bit of fancy wood is going to foul up the experienced makers' plans, but that is to be expected, now and then.  I'd think that sort of thing might be discussed with the customer when it happens, but I'm sure some wood gets "eaten" by the professionals too.  

He/she (the novice) might even read this thread and make the decision to learn to make repairs in the old timey way rather than jumping straight into the arms of J&B's welds and other such epoxifications.  

[Roger B]

I recently accraglassed a rifle that was shooting wild.  If you squeezed the fore end the barrel would make the fore end creak because it was a somewhat sloppy inlet.  I glassed the breech and the entire fore end (except around the key way) and it settled right down and started to shoot really good groups.   The best answer to that problem is a well inlet barrel channel, but glass will fix a lot of problems and doesn't show if done well.  To make repairs and do the breech, the old slow set clear epoxy works well if you stain the wood before putting it in. You really can't see the epoxy that way.  Use tons of release agent and slowly tap the barrel loose if you want to remove it.  Out here in AZ, you can just leave the rifle out in the sun for a few hours during the Summer, then tap it loose with a soft faced hammer.  I have also put a gun near a space heater in an Oklahoma Winter and it worked just as well.  The most important thing is to NOT FORCE ANYTHING or you wind up with a splintered mess.
Roger B.

[vulture]

I am not a professional builder, just build for myself, and from time to time I will make a goof up and something doesn't fit right, so I need to do some filling, that is when Acra Glass and other such products come into play.

[David R. Pennington]

Seems like a lot of people use this. I'm wondering why? I don't understand...

Thanks for asking, I was wondering the same thing.

[smylee grouch]

If the bedding stuff is non traditional would not some of these wonder poly finishes people use also be non traditional? And, as has been pointed out, stainless vents? There are probably more examples but these come to mind right now. Did I open a can of worms? Thoughts and opinions.

[Daryl]

LOL- I inlet big, then get a perfect fit with JB Weld.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

An acquaintance brought a Hawken full stock rifle he started and ended up in trouble.  There is a 1/4" gap behind the standing breech tang and a serious hollow under the breech end of the barrel.  I suspect dull chisels was his problem.  So I'm going to bed it with AcraGlas.  I think this is a Pecatonica precarve set...the wood is light and not very hard and finishes fuzzy.  This rifle is going to need all of the support it can get.  I'm considering doing the lock plate as well...inletting poor.

[Joe S.]

LOL- I inlet big, then get a perfect fit with JB Weld.

Now your just making fun of some of us

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

When I built a cherry fowling piece several years ago the thin lower forestock  developed 8-9 Inch  long splits that paralleled the barrel about 3/8 inch down from the top of the lower forestock. I repaired it by lightly bedding that section of forestock with Accra glass and forced it into the cracks and wrapped it tightly. Worked fine and I have beat that skinny gun to death in the woods for about 9 years. Accra glass came in handy. But other than for small repairs it seems superfluous to me.

[Daryl]

LOL- I inlet big, then get a perfect fit with JB Weld.

Now your just making fun of some of us

NOOO - really, that's how I do it.     Perfect wood to metal fit - I use steel filled epoxy, you see.

[davec2]

I spend a lot of time making a rifle.  I would like it to last as long as possible......long beyond what is left of my lifetime.  I use Acraglass to do repairs, but more than that, I bed the last 6 inches or so of every barrel and the barrel tang area on every rifle .....for two reasons.  First, I am not bad at doing a good inletting job, but no matter how long I spend at it, I cannot get 100% contact between the metal and the wood.  Some part of the breech and / or tang will be in contact with wood while other areas will not be.  Since I slot the barrel lugs, the keys or stock pins do nothing to resist recoil.  The only thing that resists the rearward force of recoil as the weapon is fired is whatever metal to wood point of contact there may be in the breech area or along the tang screw.  Now my inlet job on a .54 caliber rifle may last a 100 years, but when I bed the breech and barrel tang area, I know I have a nearly perfect 100% contact between the barrel and stock to spread out the recoil load.  It is the best way I know to insure the highest strength and longest life in the weakest area of a stock.

Second, the vertical face of the breech inlet is all end grain wood.  Hard to really seal well with most finishes.  When that area gets wet (walk in the rain, leakage from the touch hole during cleaning if you don't always pull the barrel out of the stock for cleaning), the wood in that area can absorb moisture, powder residue, cleaning fluid, ......whatever.  When I bed the breech area with Acraglass, it is substantially and permanently waterproof.  No end grain absorption possible.

So....since I would like any gun I build to last as long as possible, and since you can't see the bedding when the gun is assembled, I think it does some good (better recoil and water resistance) and certainly no harm to bed the breech area.  As JerryWH says......"The gun makers in 1790 used the best things and materials at their disposal and I do the same thing."

[Tony Clark]

Second, the vertical face of the breech inlet is all end grain wood.  Hard to really seal well with most finishes.

Not sure if you are aware of this Dave, but the end grain has better absorption characteristics then any other grain.

 As JerryWH says......"The gun makers in 1790 used the best things and materials at their disposal and I do the same thing."

Jerry also said he has never used acraglass on a ML.



It is not so difficult to get a perfect fit in the breech\lug area. Teh lug is there for a reason. The rear area of the lug is what mates the barrel to stock and receives the recoil. The trick to getting a good fit I have found is to study the lug. Then start opening the cavity for it. Then look at the lug carefully noting it's shape. Then look at your inlet and proceed a little bit more. Then study the lug look at it carefully and figure out where you are trying to go. Just take small steps and pay attention to the shape of the lug and figure out what you have to do to get it in there perfectly. simple. This applies to all inlets. I use a black magic marker as transfer.

[Acer Saccharum]

I don't ever, ever, ever get 100% contact for the barrel, or the last six inches even. I do spend mighty good effort in getting the barrel face and plug mating with the wood close to 90%. A few rounds thru the gun will take care of the rest. 

I also spend a lot of time fitting the lock bolster to the barrel. No powder residue leaking into the lock mortice keeps the internals nice and bright.

[Hungry Horse]

 My first trade gun, built by me, from scratch, had a Madrone stock. The first time it was exposed to the Northern California coastal fog, and rain, the stock torqued the barrel to the point it was shooting three feet high, and a foot to the right at fifty yards. I bedded it with Micro-Bed and never had another problem. And I never made another one with a Madrone stock either.

    Hungry Horse

[Tony Clark]

I do spend mighty good effort in getting the barrel face and plug mating with the wood close to 90%. A few rounds thru the gun will take care of the rest. 

I also spend a lot of time fitting the lock bolster to the barrel. No powder residue leaking into the lock mortice keeps the internals nice and bright.

For sure I always make sure the bolster to barrel contact is 100%. That is one thing that has to be perfect. I agree with you about the lug contact but I was thinking more like 95% maybe.

[redheart]

 It's always been best for me to inlet a matching piece of wood into my mistake with as thin a glue line as possible and re- inlet more carefully this time.
It seems to be the only way I can retain any trace any self respect. If the repair is fit closely enough, no one will be able to tell what kind of glue you used without laboratory analysis. I just hate that there's a blob of modern stuff on my smokepole, whether I can see it or not. Just me being me..

[davec2]

Tony,

Yes, I am aware of the absorption characteristics of end grain wood.  And that is my point precisely.  Despite being "finished" with whatever is used for the stock, that area (as well as under the butt plate) is almost always susceptible to water, oil, solvent, ....whatever..... soaking in.  I have repaired dozens of modern firearms (many finished with high tech finishes much better than BLO or Tung, or most of the other finishes we use on muzzle loaders, for resisting absorption) where the breech area was severely degraded by the wood absorbing something over time.  And, as Tom mentions, I also spend all effort required to get a tight fit between the lock bolster and the barrel.  However, I don't care how tight you might have made that joint, if you spend a day (or an hour) in the rain and pull the lock, the lock mortice, breech area, under the barrel....none of that will be dry.  And if that happens after you have been shooting a while, the water that gets into the breech area will not be clean water but will have plenty of powder residue in it.  That is unless it rains differently where you and Tom are...

At any rate, I understand that there are many who don't care to use Acraglass (or any comparable modern material) for anything, let alone bedding the breech area.  I'm apparently not so picky.  Redheart said, "I just hate that there's a blob of modern stuff on my smokepole, whether I can see it or not."  You mean like a 12L14 CNC machined barrel......or an investment cast 4140 and 6150 alloy lock with screw machine made screws and a cast 1095 frizzen.....or commercially produced 360 alloy sheet brass patch box and ram rod pipes.......or wood finished with Fornby's or Chambers or Permalyn....or.......well, you get my point.  It all LOOKS like it came out of the late 18th and early 19th century, but who are we kidding...really.  

[Boompa]

     I don't object to the use of Acraglas because it is a modern material, only when it is used used to compensate for shoddy inletting. I have no problem whatsoever with using it to improve the durability or performance.  Having said that, I do occasionally use it on a ML but if I do I'll leave it clear,(no brown dye), so the inletting beneath the compound in can be seen.
    For those wanting to build a longrifle in the historically correct way, using 18th century methods, materials, etc., Wallace Gussler showed us how to do that over 40 years ago. Link below.
     

[oldtravler61]

It's a two sided coin. My $.02 is simple. A traditional made gun is just that. A copy of an original done in that way. With period style tools. Contemporary is a modern rendition of a traditional gun. Built with modern tools an supplies. It keeps it simple for me.

[Kingsburyarms]

Very cool explanation...