Rowan N.C. School gunsmith L.N. - who was he???

[mbriggs]

What do you do when you learn a prior attribution is not correct?

For the last five years I have been researching for a new book I am writing on the Rowan School of Longrifle Makers. The gunsmiths of the Rowan School achieved the most unusual and stylized art form to be found in North Carolina. The best Longrifles from this school are very prized today by museums and collectors for both their history and decorative art aspect.

Rowan County Longrifles are divided into three sub-schools. The first is the Bruner group of rifles. The second is the Eagle-Ribelin- L.N. group of rifles. The third group of gunsmiths including Jacob Crider and John Waisner made Longrifles that do not resemble the first two groups.

The purpose of this post is to discuss who was L.N.?

In this book “Longrifles of North Carolina,” John Bivins named this gunsmith L. Nash and said he lived and worked in Iredell County and that he had obviously trained under the Eagle and Ribelin gunsmiths. Over the years, local collectors began referring to this gunsmith as Leonard Nash. William W. Ivey used that named for this gunsmith in his book “North Carolina Schools of Longrifles 1765 – 1865.” I have also found records at The Museum of Early Southern Decorative Arts listing this gunsmith as Lewis Nash.

A genealogist in Rowan County offered her assistance with research for this book. She said that she was unable to find anyone named L. Nash living in Iredell County in the Eighteenth Century. No one by that name is listed in the census, got married, or had a will in that county. I went to the register of deeds office in that county and could not find anyone named L. Nash had ever purchased or sold land in that county in that century. I then checked for him in Cabarrus County and Rowan County and cannot find him in either. Unless he can be documented, he will be referred to as L.N. in my book.

Here are some photos of his rifles that are known to survive.  I have found five signed examples of his work.



This is the only signed Christmas Tree patchbox by him that I have found.













If any of you know of any additional L N Rowan School rifles not in North Carolina, please let me know.

Your comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Michael Briggs

[Dennis Glazener]

She said that she was unable to find anyone named L. Nash living in Iredell County in the Eighteenth Century

Michael,
I can't help ID L.N. but offer this:

I came across what I am positive was a Gillespie rifle (or at least made in their shop), it had all the stamping's normally seen on their rifles but it was signed L. V. on the barrel. We suspected it was the owner's initials instead of the builder. We felt the rifle was made around the time of other similiar signed rifles that had dates on the barrel. Sam started searching the census records of the area and found that there was only one L.V. in the area and he owned a farm within a few miles of the Gillespie Mills River shop so we reasonably sure one of the Gillespie's built the rifle for him.

With you being sure of the area the L. N. rifle originated maybe your genealogist can find a short list of names with the L. N. initials and go from there. Who knows you might discover an un-known gun maker of that area.
Dennis

[mbriggs]

Thanks Dennis.

All of the L.N. rifles that I have seen are in the style of the Eagle-Ribelin Rowan School.  There are too many for it to be owners initials.  There was no L.N. living in Iredell or Rowan counties. 

I did have someone bring me a English Fowler that had the same L N engraved on the barrel.  I assume the gunsmith either sold it in his shop or repaired it. 

Michael

[gibster]

Michael,
I keep looking at the L and am wondering if there is a chance that it could be a T.  There was a Thomas Nash in Rowan County listed in the 1830 census and he was between 50 and 59 years old.  I didn't find any info on what he did for a living though.  There may be a chance that the L is a middle name that he used, but when the census takers came around, he gave his first name. 

[Buck]

Gibster,
Thinking the same thing. Mike, I just opened this thread and my first thought was T not L. Not an expert but thought of how I used to sign the T in cursive and the flow of the pen, think it's a T.
Buck

[Arcturus]

I'm glad gibster and Buck posted the same thing I was thinking:  are we sure it's an "L"?  I searched for old cursive letters, and every "L" in English or German examples I can find continues to cross the vertical line and form a horizontal one at the bottom.  My first thought was, could it be a "T"?  Also based on the style of the "N", could it be a "J"?

[Buck]

J would cross from the other direction.
Buck

[Mike Brooks]

Struck me as an L right off....still does.

[Robby]

I'd vote ' T '.
Robby

[gibster]

Showed my wife the picture with the initials on the patch box and asked her what they were. Her first thought was T N. But she also said that it could be a J. I pulled up a few copies of wills from the early 1800's of folks with a J or a T as the first letter and the handwritten J and T of the time looks very close to this. An L has the bottom loop cross over the vertical line. This is the first time that I have seen one of his signed rifles and have always accepted the information from researchers in the past that it was L N for Leonard Nash. But after seeing two examples of signed work, I'm not convinced the initial is an L. Just my opinion of course. And you know what they say about opinions  

[Bill Paton]

In English script, the “N” is perfect, and the first letter is closer to an “S” than an “L” or a “T”. Check “English script” on Google.
In German script, the “N” is no match. I think this is English script and I vote for “SN”.

Bill Paton

[mbriggs]

Thanks for all of the comments.  I will request my research person to dig up information on Thomas Nash and will also look for anyone that matches the other initials.  Bill Ivey and I feel certain that L.N. lived and worked in Rowan or Cabarrus County.  Isaac Ribelin was in Eastern Rowan.  George and John Eagle were in Cabarrus.  L.N. likely trained under one of them.  Too bad John Bivins is no longer around to share his source.

Michael Briggs   

[Mike Brooks]

All cypherin' aside, I sure do like that gun with the grease hole.....

[BOB HILL]

Researching my great-great grandfather Hill of Gates Co. N.C. We took a letter that was just like this      for an L. After a lot of time searching for Joseph L. Hill, we found his full name in a family bible, Joseph Trotman Hill. I would not rule out the T, this being the same time period and state.     
Bob

[bama]

l still write my cursive "T's" in this manor, I also make an capital "F" in this manor with a cross line in the middle of the vertical line. I am not saying this definitely a "T" but I do think the possibility should be looked at if you have no luck with it as an "L".

[Arcturus]

As I stated in my first post, after searching old cursive alphabets, I felt it could be a "T" or maybe a stylized "J".  But "S" also seemed possible.  And after reading Bill Paton's post, I searched some more, and every alphabet I found where the "N" matches the initials on these guns, the first letter most resembles "S".  "T" is certainly a possibility, but I really don't think it's an "L".  I think LN may be SN or TN.  Quite an interesting mystery!

[Bill Paton]

I looked in 4 sources for “SN” and “TN” makers who might fit your search.

Gardner (Small Arms Makers) sites “Sylvester Nash” at Harpers Ferry with a patent for barrel turning from April 11, 1818. He is also sited in “Gun Smiths of WV” and in Sellers, who sites an article in Gun Report 9-60 by C M Patterson titled "Gun Stocking Genius”. It would be interesting to see if he is part  of the Nash family of NC.

Sellers also notes “Thomas Nash” in New Haven, Conn as a colonial militia member and town armorer with dates of 1589-1658. Might he be an ancestor of your Nash family?

Herr’s “Der Neue Stockel” lists nobody of further interest.

There were other “SN” and “TN” makers in these sources, but they are in New England, Upper Mid-West, and Great Britain, so the only ones that remotely fit those initials in the South were these two Nash entries.

Bill Paton

[mbriggs]

I want to thank everyone again for the comments, suggestions and ideas.  I have forwarded all of them to my researcher.  If they find anything solid I will report back here.

[Mike Brooks]  As to your comments about liking the second rifle, I totally agree.  The Rowan School rifles by the Eagle's, Ribelin's, and L.N. are my favorite stock architecture of any rifle made in North Carolina.  In my opinion they are not a copy of any rifles made in Pennsylvania or Virginia. 

Michael Briggs

[Mike Brooks]

I want to thank everyone again for the comments, suggestions and ideas.  I have forwarded all of them to my researcher.  If they find anything solid I will report back here.

[Mike Brooks]  As to your comments about liking the second rifle, I totally agree.  The Rowan School rifles by the Eagle's, Ribelin's, and L.N. are my favorite stock architecture of any rifle made in North Carolina.  In my opinion they are not a copy of any rifles made in Pennsylvania or Virginia. 

Michael Briggs

Yup, that gun has lead me to dig out all my NC books..... Might have to do that gun.

[Karl Kunkel]

I'm not usually drawn to southern guns, but that cheek piece is sexy.

[MGillman]

I'm looking forward to seeing if you can come up with documentation in the county you assume he was building in. I hope you can find it. That would be a great find to have him documented and maybe get a whole name.