Author Topic: Sights  (Read 5957 times)

Ken Livengood

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Sights
« on: March 23, 2009, 01:42:32 AM »
I just completed my first build about a week and a half ago. It's .40 cal shimmel built on a pre inletted burks county style stock. Green mountain 7/8 barrel.
Large siler lock.
The gun shoots great and it's the fastest flintlock I ever shot. it's as fast as my Lyman GPR in cap.
This past week I shot the gun several times off the bench working on loads and getting the sights where I want them.?? The gun really shoots well with 35gr. through 50gr swiss 3f, A .400ball that I cast myself and .017 ticking from Wal Mart.
I'm using lehigh valley lube on the patches.wiping between shots.
I settled on a straight 40 gr to make things simple. average groups @ 50 yards  off the bench are less then an inch some much smaller.I don't get  fliers with this gun as I did with my GPR.
I had the sights down to where I was about 1" low @ 50 yards. Then I tried it offhand yesterday, samething it was shooting a little low so I figured I,d leave them there until I get shooting somemore.
I went to the range today to shoot some more  offhand  and it was printing about 3" low. is it normal to have that much of a change from day to day?
I can see zero moving from off the bench to offhand,but I shot offhand yesterday and it was only about an inch lower then call, today 3"+ -
I checked everything , powder charge, patching everything I can think of. I need some suggestions before I file the sight some more.
 I'm a decent offhand shooter, I can call my shots well.
Is this normal?  Any suggestions?
Thanks, Ken

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Sights
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 02:10:32 AM »
Jeez, Kenny ain't it fun ;D

Maybe a visit to the pow wow lady may help!

Ken Livengood

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Re: Sights
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 02:17:36 AM »
Roger,Thats what I was thinking, I still know of one.
Kenny

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sights
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 02:54:58 AM »
Ken I wrote a reply but somehow it didn't send.  Oh, well, here goes again.

Your accuracy seem very fine.  As to the changing zero I can only guess.  first, I and many others, don't recommend wiping between shots.  It puts in another variable and is "artificial" in hunting.  I suppose it's okay for targets though unnecessary. 

Start by checking your barrel to see if it has any looseness in the stock, even a tiny amount makes a big difference.  Try wiggling it and look for any movement.  If the barrel checks out check all screws & parts for looseness. 

Next make sure your loading routine is the same all the time; same charge, lube, patch, loading pressure, etc.  Try to remove as many variables as possible.

It's common for rifles and handguns to have a lower poi when fired from off hand or from field positions than when fired from a rest.  Check your shooting technique.  it should be the same every time.  Another thing, you MUST use follow through when shooting a flintlock!  Keep the gun mounted after you pull the trigger as if you HAVEN'T pulled it!  Keep everything the same for an extra couple moments.  Flintlocks need follow through more than capguns do.  This is a common mistake with first time flint shooters and those use to capguns.

If your front sight is brass or silver it can "disappear" depending on how sunlight strikes it.  Glare can make it look shorter, taller or make it look like it's to one side or the other.  Shade it if you can.

If you try all these and still have the same problem, kill a goat and sacrifice it.  It will be out of your hands.  Good shooting.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sights
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 03:06:32 AM »
Ken, please don't misunderstand.  I don't mean to infer that you are new to flintlocks & shooting, far from it.  Your post mentions your shooting experience.  Since you did ask about a problem I tried to think of as many things as I could that could go wrong.  I agree, a pow wow wouldn't hurt.  Now that I think about it, you might just go ahead and sacrifice the goat first.  That way you'll know if the problem's fixable.   ;D ;D
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

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Re: Sights
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 03:13:41 AM »
Ken- when I shoot off the bags with a muzzleloader or modern hunting rifle, I grip the forend the same as when shooting offhand, and rest the back of my foreward hand on the front bag. I don't use a rear bag.  That way, my POI doesn't change, bench to offhand.  Good shooting!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 03:13:58 AM by Daryl »

Ken Livengood

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Re: Sights
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 04:37:43 AM »
Flintr, I understand what your saying, The wood isn't loose and the pins are tight.
Idont know if I could load with out wiping between shots. It's tight loading even though I am wiping. I know what you mean by follow through. maybe I'm a little early on relaxing.this thing is so fast I don't even hear the hammer hit. or see a flash . I'm new to flint ( except a couple days a year of hunting with it) but I'm gonna keep practicing till I get it right.
Daryl, I was using a rear bag and steering the gun with it. thanks for the tip.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sights
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 04:49:48 AM »
Ken, use a .390 ball with the same patch you're using now.  It will load easily without deforming the ball and you won't have to wipe between shots at all.  Accuracy should be unaffected or very little. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

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Re: Sights
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 07:37:28 AM »
For winter shooting, I use a slightly easier loading .395" ball and .0215" denim patch.  This combinations loads easily and never needs wiping.   This isn't as accurate as the .020" patch and .400" ball that I use in the summer time. This combination also loads fairly easily and shoots and loads so cleanly, it never needs wiping either.  I've used both through the winter, but during the winter, I only shoot the trail and pin-point accuracy isn't needed as when shooting paper. THAT's when the bore sized ball comes out with a decently heavy patch.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:02:23 PM by Daryl »

Leatherbelly

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Re: Sights
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 07:59:27 AM »
  Ken,
  I like a .395 R/B in my forty. I use a .020-.022  patch that is  sloppy wet.Wipes the fouling from my previous shot. Before you change anything,maybe try a super wet patch soaked in your Lehigh lube. Gosh, I wish I could find some of that stuff. Good luck.
 Cheers

Offline Eric Laird

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Re: Sights
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 03:33:52 PM »
Ken,
It doesn't sound like you need any load advice - the accuracy seems to indicate that whatever ball/patch/loading combo you've chosen to use is working. If your shooting technique is consistent then the next thing that comes to my mind with what you desribe is lighting. If you are using a traditional brass or silver front sight that is designed to catch the light then the lighting can affect your point of impact. The general rule is that you'll tend to shoot away from the light source. The glare on the front sight is greatest toward the light source and your eye wants to center the brightest part of the front sight in the rear sight which pushes your muzzle away from the light. If you're shooting where your sights are in shade, it shouldn't happen as much but can still happen a little bit, especially to give vertical changes. Was it noticably brighter the second time you were out? If so, that would be my guess at the explanation. Hope this helps.
Eric
Eric Laird

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Sights
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2009, 04:51:33 PM »
"Lights up sights up" !!  This may be the answer to shootin low since we have had quite some sun later round here! :)

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sights
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2009, 07:15:06 PM »
ken, a sloppy wet patch will help to ease loading.  To prevent the patch from soaking the powder simply put some sort of "wad" down on the powder.  You can use a dry patch, or just a wad of paper and it will protect the charge from the lube.  This is the way I load all the time and almost never have to wipe at all.  For general shooting and especially hunting, go to a smaller ball.  .390 - .395 have been suggested and you should find it much easier to load.  I don't notice any decrease in accuracy in my guns using a smaller ball but, then, I'm not the greatest shot, either. 

Those Large Siler Locks are as good as they get!
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Ken Livengood

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Re: Sights
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 10:18:47 PM »
I want to thank you all for all the good advice and suggestions. I am going to try some .395 balls,as I have a mold for that. and I do like the idea of the wad on top of the powder.
Now I feel like a fool for telling you this but I think I found the problem. In all my days I never thought I would do it ,BUTT,I put a new can of powder in me box yesterday before I went to the range. Guess what 2f instead of 3f so hopefully that was my problem. I don't know if 2f is that much slower or not but it cant help.
It did shoot pretty good though just hit lower on the target.
I really do appreciate all the help and I'm learing a lot out of this whole mess up.
Thanks a bunch, Kenny

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Sights
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 10:37:52 PM »
Well now Kenny you better get a fat black tip pen and put bigger numbers on your powder cans - best on top of said cans - like old guys with cataracts do! ;D

Offline hanshi

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Re: Sights
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2009, 11:21:17 PM »
Yep, 2f will do it.  Same as dropping down your powder charge.  I'll second the felt pen thing.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Ken Livengood

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Re: Sights
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2009, 11:35:45 PM »
I just went and marked all my powder. I got a case of swiss 1/2 2F the other 1/2 3f and I just pulled from the wrong side of the case.
Another lesson learned.
Ken

Daryl

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Re: Sights
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 05:21:58 PM »
Ken - my .40 Goodioen likes 2F, but it takes 75gr. to make it happy when using LehighValley lube and 55gr. with spit patch.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 05:22:37 PM by Daryl »