first patch box pic of second try. 3rd try a keeper

[Daniel]

I know it's not beautiful but, My first ever completely hand made box cover. No power tools.
I need to clean it up but not polish.

[mark esterly]

while i have little experience building i think it would look better with an odd number of knuckles.  cut the knuckles wider and file back for an exact fit with the mating piece.

[bob in the woods]

I'd straighten up the edges with a bit of file work. Main question is...what style of rifle is it going on ?
And, have you decided on a latch mechanism or configuration ?  I prefer a nice simple patch box on a plain style rifle.  Good job.

[Daniel]

 Yea when I was cutting it I didn't to much on the fingers on the hinge.
I am going to clean up the edges good and straight. It will go on a Northern
Carolina type . Simple gun but Elisha Bull architecture.

[bama]

This is a good first attempt but there are some things that you need to take another look at. As was mentioned earlier there needs to an odd number of knuckles in the hinge. I personally like to have 3 knuckles on the door or lid of the box with with the outside knuckles on the door even with the edges of the door. To me this makes the patch box door very stable.

The initial bends should be a sharp 90 degree bend. Then the round portion where the hinge pin goes should be formed. I have a hinge forming tool that I use to do this with, sorry I don't have a picture of it to post. it is just a piece of 1/2" plate about 3" square that I milled down to leave a 1/16" ridge along one edge. This tool works great for forming a hinge. When I have the round portion of the hinge started and folded over to where the bend is a little more than half way I remove my piece from the hinge maker and place my hinge wire in the fold and continue the fold around the wire. You may need to anneal the piece before completing the bend around the wire.

Once I have the round portion formed on both pieces of the patch box I solder the joint where the metal is folded over back onto itself. I do this so my fold will stay tight for the next step. You may need to run a 1/16" drill through to clear any solder that may have gotten into the loop potion where the wire goes. Do this before bending the pieces to conform to the contour of the stock.

Next I bend each piece to match the contour of the stock. I do this before I cut the nuckles into each piece. I do this to keep the edges of the knuckles straight, this will help the two pieces to fit tightly together and not bind during the opening process.

Next I lay out my nuckles l and cut them in being careful and fitting them together as I go. This will help you to not have big gaps between the nuckles.

The last step in making the hinge is fitting the two pieces together with the hinge wire in place. This always takes some work just go slow and it will be fine and you will have a nice tight hinge that opens nicely.

I use 1/16" diameter piano wire for my hinge and I sharpen one end a little so the wire be easier to feed into the nuckles during the fitting process.

I hope this helps.

Jim

[rsells]

daniel,
There is a great tutorial on this forum on how to make a patchbox.  It covers how to make and use an easy to make tool to help form the hinges of the box.  I made the tool and it really makes it easy to form the hinges.  Well worth the time to read, and has saved me a bunch of effort to make boxes since I found the information.  Good luck with your work.
                                                                                                 Roger Sells

[Daniel]

Thank you for your help all. I do not have a shop per say. I made this cover sitting on the floor.  I will be putting to use what I have seen and learned here. At least try.

Daniel

[DFHicks]

Daniel,
Lots of good tips already.  There is another helpful technique  in "The Gunsmith of Grenville Co."  to lightly scribe a line marking the center of the lid and filial. A pencil line can be rubbed out in working on the hinge.  I am also trying to learn how to make a PB with a neat hinge and this helps.  Before I was just filing this knuckle and then another by eye.  This soon becomes filing at random.  The line always brings you back to the same alignment of the two parts.  Hope this helps.
Greg

[Daniel]

  Sure . Understood.

[Daniel]

Second try. The pin is too big. 1/8" .

[Ky-Flinter]

Looking better Daniel.  When I make something for the first time, it takes me at least 3 tries (sometimes more) before I get a keeper.  Get some 1/16 pin stock (piano wire from a hobby store, or 17 or 18 gauge finishing nails) and I'll bet your 3rd try will be the charm.

-Ron

[Mark Elliott]

That second try is much better. 

I would suggest that you put the two knuckles on the lid, because you need to put a curve in the lid and finial.   You will need to make a wood former to do the curve.   The curve should follow the curve of the stock but be a little tighter.  In other words,  it should curve a little more.   This adds rigidity to the lid.

You should form the hinge, form the curve; and THEN, cut the knuckles.    The knuckles should be cut straight up and down; in line with the motion of the l lid and NOT perpendicular to the hinge.   

The knuckles should be tight, but that is not what makes a tight hinge.   A tight pin through the knuckles makes a tight hinge.    As already suggested,  you should use 1/16" music wire for the hinge.   You will have to bend it to match the curve in the hinge, and have to worry it through the knuckles.   You may have to take a 1/16" drill to the knuckles but that should be a last resort.  It will just loosen the hinge.   I often takes me an hour to get a pin worked through the hinge.   I taper one end of my pin and just keep bending it and working it in.   If you formed the hinge around a 1/16" music wire, then the pin should go eventually.   

Once the hinge is together, then you can file the hinge knuckles even with each other so that you have one smooth hinge.    A nice finishing touch is to cut the hinge pin about a half a knuckle short on either end and then pein the hinge closed at the ends.   

[Daniel]

 Thanks guys. The biggest problem I am having is cutting out the knuckles too deep.
How do you all do that and get the stock to be removed out ? I hack sawed this one
and then with a small chisel cut it out. Cut too deep with saw first. I guess with smaller
pin that might help.  I can't do any more today my hands are swelling up.

Daniel

[Dennis Glazener]

You need a jewelers saw.http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=german+jewelry+saw&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=85448361427&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4673030521960684654&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_3hja9j5j3_b
Dennis

[Mark Elliott]

You use a jewelers saw for most all patchbox work including cutting out the knuckles.   You then clean up with needle files or small pillar files.   You will also need to make a bird's mouth (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qzC2L36w7ag/TJfz2sQxE1I/AAAAAAAAAH4/OEP4pk46Pks/s1600/CopingSaw.jpg) and get a couple of small parallel clamps to use with the jewelers saw.   A little beeswax on the jewelers saw blade helps smooth the cutting a good bit.   

Make sure you get plenty of good German or Swiss blades intended for steel. The others are too soft to last, even on brass.   The correct teeth per inch (TPI) is 3-4 teeth to the thickness of the material to be cut.  For 1/16" material (my standard thickness for patchboxes), you will need 48-64 TPI.   

[Daniel]

 Ok , don't work harder, work smarter.
thank you.

[Clark Badgett]

Why wouldn't you want an initial polish?

[Daniel]

 The metal has a patina from being part of a stone chimney in a log cabin.
That is why. Secondly I want to do a gun with a lot of patina/ aging to it.

[Daniel]

third try with piano wire and curved .  YES 

[Daniel]

[oldtravler61]

To each his own I say

[Daniel]

 I might take it off. Not sure. I have a silver heart. Whether I do or not this one came out great. At least I think so .

[Daniel]

  Hey Mike,
  I took the silver thing off. Looks better.