Stick welding tenons ok?

[jerrywh]

I have been gunsmithing for over 50 years. Any welding done on modern gunbarrels is done with a tig welder. Even at that it takes a special technique to prevent problems. There is no way to stick weld or weld with an acetylene outfit on a barrel without causing a problem. It may or may not be dangerous on a muzzle loader but the odds are more than even that it will be more dangerous. I supose it is acceptable to risk your own life but not to risk somebody elses. You can take the advise of some very experienced people on this forum or not. However, since you now have been advised by experts, it could be considered manslaughter if someone else should die from your actions. I would never do what you have done.  You are betting everything you have in this world and everything somebody else has also. That is insane in my opinion. And for EGO? That's reallity.
  PS. I know it's hard to take but there is a lot smarter people on this forum that either of us. You should take thier advise. Scrap the barrel or saw off the good part and make something else out of it.

[jasontn]

i am glad to read some of the replies on this thread in regards to safety. these replies reinforce a point i had tried to make elsewheres on the safety of using some techniques and materials when making or modifying a barrel. terribly theres a group who seem to feel theres no inherent danger in these kinds of methods, and even defend the practice of them, and will stand behind those who do them. i dont think anyone here was being too out of line in thier replies, they just said what the had to with the safety of you and others in mind. there is a wealth of reliable, trustable gun building knowledge to be had here from these guys. safety is no area to cut corners with, no matter what the project is. a new barrel is much cheaper and easier to live with than a terrible accident.

[Dphariss]

Agree never use seamless tubing. In my limited experience (1018 carbon steel, 310 [25%Cr 20%Ni] stainless, and an odd heat resisting alloy) seamless tubing can have some of the worst seams in it. Those seams are on the bore side, hard to find in inspection. Welded tubing only has the advantage that you know where it will fail.

Remington's steel had lousy fatigue properties, meaning it can crack at a notch after maybe 100,000 rounds. No problem for the hunter, bad for skeet shooters. I thought it was 1137Mod? Knew the retired metallurgical professor who, along with an intelligent lawyer, convinced them to improve matters. In muzzle loading barrels 1137M is the best steel that is used; at least it is far, far superior to the screw stock most use.

AISI 12L14 screw stock has the brittle failure problems at 70F that 416 does at 0F.

Most common reason to blow a barrel with black powder, in my experience, is to load the ball off the powder. A contemporary lawyer might reasonably call that a "forseeable misuse". I would say, meaning someone is gonna do it no matter the warnings, so the barrel steel must be capable of bulging, not shattering into pieces. That sort of thing has been known since the 1870's, when people had just begun to mess around with steel shotgun barrels. With decent steel the barrel only rings & needs replaced. With very weak steel, or brittle steel containing a seam, the barrel can shatter with unpleasant effects on the shooter.

The lawsuit stated 1140M. I got 10 or 20 bucks for having a shotgun in the serial number range.
Hardly enough for a new barrel....
I have a pair of 54 cal 4150 Hawken and 1 cartridge barrel on order from Badger. But I need to find out if the order was lost...

Dan

[jerrywh]

Dan.
   Is 4150 what Badger usually uses for his barrels??
 NOTE.  A friend of mine made several blunderbusses out of seamless tubing. I used to use that stuff until he blew one up when proofing with a standard load. He was a very experienced gun maker.  All seamless is not the same. some actually has no seam at all. It is pierced over a anvil, like a big donut, and then rolled out to size.

[Dphariss]

Dan.
   Is 4150 what Badger usually uses for his barrels??
 NOTE.  A friend of mine made several blunderbusses out of seamless tubing. I used to use that stuff until he blew one up when proofing with a standard load. He was a very experienced gun maker.  All seamless is not the same. some actually has no seam at all. It is pierced over a anvil, like a big donut, and then rolled out to size.

Ernie does a lot of mil-spec stuff and I think 4150 is what is generally used for this.
From the web site:

*******
As I mentioned before, we use only the best premium quality firearm steel money can buy. For chrome moly barrels, we use only SAE 4150, firearm certified chrome moly.....
*********
Dan

[Rich]

Don't feel insulted by what appears to be a harsh response. The members of this board are trying to help prevent a disaster. I know one of the members who suggested scrapping the barrel. He knows more about metal that I think I'll ever know. Take the advice. Besides, why would you want a gun that is not your best work? Redoing something that didn't turn out is part of the art.

[jerrywh]

Thanks Dan.

[Pete G.]

Sounds like we might have someone that did something that he is having second thoughts about, and now wants someone to say "Sure, every thing is fine".
From his attitude it sounds like he might have left the board and is not coming back.

Oh well. Thanks to all for being honest and straight forward; that's exactly what keeps me here.

[famouseagle]

Let's hope we don't read about him in the paper.

[rick landes]

Let's hope we don't read about him in the paper.

Or the innocent bystander...