Hawken stuff

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There are two styles of Hawken triggers sold by L & R.  One has a straight front trigger that has no shoe, and the other's front trigger has a curved front trigger WITH a shoe.  I used red heat to take some of the exaggerated curve out of the front trigger of the second style, as well as to set it at the correct attitude relative to the rear one.  While doing this heating, I clamped the working part of the trigger in the jaws of my bench vise, so that that area was not effected by the heat.  So no further heat treating was required on the front trigger.

One of the images of the trigger sets for these two rifles, early in the thread, shows both styles of triggers...front trigger with and without the shoe.

[Whaleman]

Thanks, I see on TOW. I guess this is one of the problems of buying a parts set without knowing all these details. I will see if the curved front trigger will fit if it was supplied with the straight trigger. I bought my parts set from a company primarily known for stocks. The wood they supplied is great and I am very happy with it. I am sure if I would have known and asked they would have been happy to supply what I wanted. Dan

[Bob Roller]

There are two styles of Hawken triggers sold by L & R.  One has a straight front trigger that has no shoe, and the other's front trigger has a curved front trigger WITH a shoe.  I used red heat to take some of the exaggerated curve out of the front trigger of the second style, as well as to set it at the correct attitude relative to the rear one.  While doing this heating, I clamped the working part of the trigger in the jaws of my bench vise, so that that area was not effected by the heat.  So no further heat treating was required on the front trigger.

One of the images of the trigger sets for these two rifles, early in the thread, shows both styles of triggers...front trigger with and without the shoe.

In the past I've made double set triggers with a curved front trigger,supposedly for use in a smaller
guard bow.I thought it looked better on a Mauser or a percussion Schuetzen Rifle.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There are a few Hawken rifles with a curved front trigger, as supplied by TOW, but the majority are straight or almost so.  Most too, have a shoe...are not filed smooth along the sides.  L & R"s curved front trigger will drop into the same plate as the one with the straight trigger.

[Dphariss]

That rifle you presented, Dan, appears to me to have had the barrel bobbed, by about 10 or 11 inches.  That would raise the weight on the original configuration to well over 10 pounds, I would think.  It's not the overall weight that makes the rifle, it's the diameter across the flats, and the length.  Nice seeing pictures of originals.

Well I will be dipped. (from the "dip" in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"). Taylor I cannot tell you how many times I have looked at photos of this rifle (Since Baird first wrote it up 1967-68 ) and even seen it in person a few times and I never noticed the barrel being shortened.      Baird does not mention it either in skimming his write up. I bet that someone DID cut about a foot off it so it could easily have been 42-44 originally and 12+ pounds. Baird does list it at 10.5 pounds. In looking at it at Cody it almost looks like the barrel has a slight swamp. Baird says its 1 1/16" breech and 1 at the muzzle. But the rifle is near vertical as it is/was displayed so its hard to tell due to the angles and the case its in etc.

The later barrels got heavier. I think there are a couple of reasons I have been over this with Mad Monk over the years. One, the powder got a lot better after 1800, more pressure, the percussion system tended to make a steeper initial pressure curve (some FLs in Britian when converted to percussion, burst) AND the later Hawkens are prone to having steel barrels rather than iron. Since it was hard to control the alloy this could be a factor. I also suspect the the increase in the use of the Picket Bullet may have resulted in heavier barrels being made by the barrel makers since that was what they got the most orders for. ? Lots of Squirrel Rifles with small bores are far heavier than they needed to be.  We know there was at least one Hawken in a book ("Wah To Yah and The Taos Trail" IIRC) that was said to have shot a bullet 1 inch long. But I don't recall seeing one with a muzzle turned for a starter and either a starter or a false muzzle with a starter is needed for the picket.   Then of course we have the small buttplates  found on the percussion rifles making the weight a good idea. I don't know. All I know is compared to this rifle many of the later rifles especially the "S" versions are huge.
Its third from the right here.....

[Dphariss]

By the way the 1836 Atchinson Hawken has the same variant lock plate shape. So the rifle perhaps dates to the early 1830s.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I've resurrected this old thread just to show off the two Hawken rifles just finished.  I may post pictures of them individually in a separate pair of threads.
Interesting to me at least, is the fact that I used the same bottle of Ferric Nitrate solution to stain both of these stocks.  The percussion rifle, the darker of the two, is much harder maple.  I think the flint rifle was a piece of Western broadleaf maple which I find almost always has flamboyant curl.
Well they are done, and will be going out to their new owners shortly, but first I get to shoot them to make sure everything functions as it should, and to roughly sight them in.  That's always a pleasant day at the range for me, and the icing on the cake, so to speak.
I finished the steel with a slow rust brown, and the wood with Circa 1860 Tung Oil finish.  The flintlock was in a fire which destroyed the stock of the previous rifle, and I simply burnished it with a soft wire wheel and left the finish as you see.  I re-hardened and tempered the springs and the frizzen.

[Keb]

WOW & WOW!! Nice stuff.

[Whaleman]

Very nice. The Hawken I am building will be better because you took the time to post this. Thank You. Dan

[Daryl]

That old goat hide is sure a nice back-drop for the rifles and parts.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Daryl:  I've been using that mountain goat skin for this job for a lot of years.  It has the right amount of broken shadow that even being white, it doesn't overload the camera into overexposure.  Even with the florescent lighting, I get pretty realistic colour.

[mountainman70]

It is always gratifying to me to see how much enthusiasm ol Jake and Sam'l still generate today,and this is just us guys on here.Taylor,you should write a book on these guns,get in cahoots with Dan'l Pharris,man what a read this is.Best regards,Dave F in Wva hills