Threaded end of RR

[Dennis Glazener]

On another topic, here in gunbuilding, the subject of which end of the rr goes into the stock. I never liked to see the threaded end sticking out, always thought the threaded end went into the rr hole. Most rifles have them that way but I remember talking with a builder of PA style rifles and he seemed to think they should be sticking out. Just curious if this is a regional trait. Remember I am talking about original not contemporary rifles.

Dennis

[David R. Pennington]

I like the rod tapered and flared out to almost bore diameter on the front end and the threaded end for jag going in the hole. I had to do it the other way round on my .40 cal. The lock mainspring crowded the rammer hole and I had to taper the little 5/16 rod down some to get it all in there, so had to put the jag end on front.

[bama]

Dennis, most of the original rifles that I have seen with old ram rods that may or may not be original rods have the threaded tip in the ram rod hole. I have seen some original half stock rifles that had the threaded tip at the muzzle.

I myself agree with David in that I like the look of a wider rod at the muzzle. Most of the time I build a tapered rod with a taper and match the the tapered end with a metal threaded attachment that will fit in the ram rod hole. I have also made some with a metal of horn tip on the ramming end of the rod but most of my rods have a wooden ramming end.

[Gary Tucker]

I'm with you Dennis.  I did it the other way around when I built my first two because I had read more than once that the RR tip should be the same length as the nose cap for appearance sake. Nowdays I prefer the tip in RR hole.  Looks better and it seems to me the motion of seating the ball is a smoother motion when you just pull the rod up and push the patched ball downward without having to flip the rod.

[louieparker]

I don't recall seeing an orginial rod that the Jag end was at the muzzle. Some of these old rods taper to about 3/16 inch diameter and have the open twisted jag for cleaning on the end.  Orginial Hawken rods  that I have seen were tapered and the big out. They have a threaded end made of iron in the RR hole and a sleeve around the big end made of silver or brass,  depending on the other rifle trim.
A ramrod can have a brass sleeve the length of the nose cap without a capped and threaded end.. Louie

[L. Akers]

Darrin McDonal has some neat RR tips for sale in the classifides/member services, products

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I think this comes from a lot of modern muzzleloaders having the jag or tip cupped to fit around the ball when loading.  People assume the purpose to help load.  That then transfers over to traditional muzzleloaders.  When I buy a jag I fill that cupped area with solder to make it flat. 

I place the jag inside the ramrod hole, I have had clients still think that the intent is to load with that end. 

Coryjoe

[blienemann]

When I started out building plains or mountain rifles, many builders used a brass or iron tip same length as nosecap.  I think i have seen and read of some originals done this way, and looks good.  Some have a threaded tip for jag inside, and a cup shaped larger tip at muzzle for loading - with or without threads.  Have seen a few with 8x32 on one end and 10x32 on other - a modern accommodation.
 
Then migrated to tapered rod with different sized pipes, tapered iron tip inside like the old guns and near bore size flare at muzzle - especially for longrifles.  I liked the plain wood look and flare in ramrod goes well with flare at muzzle.
 
But in researching the Bethlehem and C's Spring records, adding a brass sleeve at the muzzle end of ramrod was a common bit of work - on new and old guns.  Sure it reinforced the ramrod in loading.  The Oerter griffin rifle and another I've seen have such a brass sleeve as Louie mentioned, around a near bore size rod.
Bob 

[Squirrel pizza]

But unless you're within a foot of the muzzle who can tell? Mr Kibler knew from a picture but since he made it I guess it was easy for him. I love to learn new things, which is why this site is such a gold mine. But sometimes I think it's like arguing over the color of poo. Does it really matter?

[Acer Saccharum]

I make a tapered rod end out of sheet steel and braze the seam along with a threaded nut. It can be small enough to fit down in the rr hole.

On a rifle, I also like to leave the wooden end as a flared 'tulip' end. It's nicer on the palm as I push the ball home.

On a fowler, a tulip end is nice to keep the card wads from tipping as you push them down the bore.

[Mark Elliott]

I have only seen a handful of old rifles with what I felt were original ramrods; usually because of ferrules or tips.   To the best of my memory, all the threaded (or fixed wiper) ends were in the ramrod hole.   Some had fancy loading tips.   The threaded ferrules were always crude welded sheet iron.    The fact that they were crude meant to me that they were not  to be seen.  I assume that silver, horn, or ivory loading tips were meant to be seen. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Acer has it exactly.  It is useless motion to flip a ramrod twice during a loading sequence.  And the small end of the rod pushed a ball down the barrel just fine...the barrel supports the rod so it is not likely to break.  And the big end of the rod is easy on the hand for seating pressure.  Conversely, and to reiterate what Tom has already said, in a smooth bore, with shot, the big end of the rod seats wads nicely.

[draken]

Eisenhower was in his second term when I came to the conclusion that ramrods must have been tapered and the small end went in the ramrod hole to prevent them becoming stuck in the stock.

It was an old percussion gun of unknown origin and I had to leave it in the garage one particular evening because it was loaded.  It rained that night and part of the following day.

Dad told me to unload the gun, so I fired it into the ground but when I tried to pull the ramrod for cleaning it was stuck tight.  Didn't think I'd ever get that @!*% thing out!

[Pete G.]

I usually put a 5/16" tip on a 3/8" rr and taper the rod from the entry thimble aft. I also agree with using the thin end of the rod to ram the charge. Never really liked waving a ramrod around like a fly rod.