Question on sear bars

[moleeyes36]

I'm installing a set of double set triggers in a Philip Gillespie rifle based on the one on pages 35 to 37 of Dennis' book.  The lock is a percussion L&R Bailes.  The problem is that the sear bar actually appears to be slightly slanted toward the bottom edge of the lock plate.  This doesn't allow quite enough clearance between the sear bar and the top of the trigger levers.  I've filed some off the top of both trigger levers and am getting close but still need about another 1/16 of an inch.  I can keep filing the top of the trigger levers but a slight bend to the sear bar would do it quicker.  However I don't want snap it off if it's a hardened and tempered part.  I'll keep filing on the trigger levers if it is. 

So, could one of you more knowledgable on lock internals than me please tell me if the sear is a hardened and tempered part?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[Joe Stein]

Obviously, the sear nose is hardened.  I would guess that the rest of it is, too, as that would be the simplest way to heat treat the part.  You could probably tell if you can bend it cold, without first annealing it,  by trying to cut the sear bar near the bend with a file. Try this on the top of the sear bar, where you won't roughen up any of the sear that moves against the lock plate or trigger bars.  If the file will cut the sear bar, you should be able to bend it cold.  If you need to anneal it before bending, clamp the part from the swell around the screw hole to the nose in a vise and heat near the 90* angle on out to the end of the bar where the triggers contact it.  If you use aluminum jaws in  the vise you won't scratch up the part where it rubs against the lock plate and bridle.  They might also help absorb some of the heat around the part of the sear you don't want to anneal.

[Dennis Glazener]

Sometimes you can get enough off the sear bar itself to do the trick. Just rub some inletting black on the bar to see where the trigger bar is hitting it and grind a little off. I have done this a couple of times with no problems.
Dennis

[moleeyes36]

Sometimes you can get enough off the sear bar itself to do the trick. Just rub some inletting black on the bar to see where the trigger bar is hitting it and grind a little off. I have done this a couple of times with no problems.
Dennis

Thanks, Dennis, I'll try that first and maybe take a little more off the trigger bar if needed.  I think I'm at risk of breaking the sear bar if I try to anneal and bend it.  Murphy's law gets me far too often .

Mole Eyes

[L. Akers]

L&R sears are hard so to bend you'll have to anneal.  The part to bend (if you can't get it to fit by grinding) is the arm that is 90 degrees to the plate.  Bend it up and over.  From the rear it'll look like a flattened-out Z.  I've done this several times to make things fit.

[P.W.Berkuta]

+1 --- heat bend, heat bend - don't try to bend it without bring it up to red heat or anneal it then bend it. You will need to re-harden and temper it after you get it where you need it to be.

[Bob Roller]

L&R sears are hard so to bend you'll have to anneal.  The part to bend (if you can't get it to fit by grinding) is the arm that is 90 degrees to the plate.  Bend it up and over.  From the rear it'll look like a flattened-out Z.  I've done this several times to make things fit.

Instead of all the bending of sears and filing on triggers,the next time you build a rifle,
get the barrel into wood and then MEASURE distances between the sear at full cock and
the height of the triggers. That will save a lot of grief and inquiry.

Bob Roller

[moleeyes36]

L&R sears are hard so to bend you'll have to anneal.  The part to bend (if you can't get it to fit by grinding) is the arm that is 90 degrees to the plate.  Bend it up and over.  From the rear it'll look like a flattened-out Z.  I've done this several times to make things fit.

Instead of all the bending of sears and filing on triggers,the next time you build a rifle,
get the barrel into wood and then MEASURE distances between the sear at full cock and
the height of the triggers. That will save a lot of grief and inquiry.

Bob Roller

I agree, Bob, that's the way to do it right and I follow that method.  The problem here is that I started with a very roughly shaped stock for a generic Southern Mountain Rifle that a number of months ago I bought it from another forum member who had gotten it from someone else.  It's a beautiful piece of maple and had more than enough wood left on it that Dennis' drawings for a Gillespie rifle fit quite nicely.  Dave Rase cast the correct trigger guard for me and I got the Gillespie butt plate from Dennis. 

The original owner of the stock had apparently started building a rifle with it and had done some very crude inletting (hacking/chopping really) especially in the lock mortise, trigger, and trigger guard area.  I've done a lot of repair but some things I just have to live with or develop workarounds.

I'm just an amateur builder with limited experience so I took on the challenge as a learning experience.  That's how we learn to do things.  However, when it's finished I think it will be a passable rifle based on the Philip Gillespie rifle in Dennis' book.

Mole Eyes

[Bob Roller]

L&R sears are hard so to bend you'll have to anneal.  The part to bend (if you can't get it to fit by grinding) is the arm that is 90 degrees to the plate.  Bend it up and over.  From the rear it'll look like a flattened-out Z.  I've done this several times to make things fit.

Instead of all the bending of sears and filing on triggers,the next time you build a rifle,
get the barrel into wood and then MEASURE distances between the sear at full cock and
the height of the triggers. That will save a lot of grief and inquiry.

Bob Roller

I agree, Bob, that's the way to do it right and I follow that method.  The problem here is that I started with a very roughly shaped stock for a generic Southern Mountain Rifle that a number of months ago I bought it from another forum member who had gotten it from someone else.  It's a beautiful piece of maple and had more than enough wood left on it that Dennis' drawings for a Gillespie rifle fit quite nicely.  Dave Rase cast the correct trigger guard for me and I got the Gillespie butt plate from Dennis. 

The original owner of the stock had apparently started building a rifle with it and had done some very crude inletting (hacking/chopping really) especially in the lock mortise, trigger, and trigger guard area.  I've done a lot of repair but some things I just have to live with or develop workarounds.

I'm just an amateur builder with limited experience so I took on the challenge as a learning experience.  That's how we learn to do things.  However, when it's finished I think it will be a passable rifle based on the Philip Gillespie rifle in Dennis' book.

Mole Eyes

THAT was  and IS a major restoration before you started the job.I have a half stock flint,English style
started but doubt if I'll finish it. I have a very low level of energy now after that horrible bronchial episode
that began on 23 December. Lock work is at a crawl and may get stopped altogether. If you say you're an amateur
builder but still know things should be measured before cut you are off to a good start. I have gotten calls from
people that can't understand why a Hawken squirrel rifle lock won't work with a 1-1/8"breech/bolster.
Mismatched parts are the demise of more than one project.Good luck with this one.

Bob Roller

[flinchrocket]

Moleeyes, you can drill and tap the trigger plate for an adjusting screw. It will hold the front of the
mainspring up and lower the trigger bar. Another thing I have thought about, but haven't tried is to solder
a piece of steel under the front of the mainspring to the triggerplate. You will have to determine the
thickness you need by trying some thin pieces under the front of the spring to see how much it lowers
the bar.