cracked frizzen

[somehippy]

Hello,

I've been having trouble getting my frizzen to harden,
  I heated it to non magnetic temperature and held it there a couple minutes and quenched in a coffee can of oil.  The frizzen was still soft (file bit in), so I tried again with a bit less than an inch of oil on top of water a couple days later with high hopes and it still seemed soft (big lazy orange sparks, flint chewing the frizzen face).  So I decided to try mineral oil as it was a bit thinned than the 10w30 motor oil.  I read about it and sounded like a good clean quenching solution.  So I filled a coffee can with hot water and poured an inch or so on top. It seemed harder, the file didn't bite (kinda scratched though), and to my further inspection, seen it cracked, right at the corner of the pan cover. Not a large crack, but significant nonetheless.  So should I scrap it or is there some kind of fix.  Oh, the lock came from John Clark (Who appears to be in the process of ritiring).  Either gotta bug him for a new one or it appears a durs egg from totw should fit.  Feel pretty silly though, just wanna shoot my gun, all part of learning I guess lol..

[Hungry Horse]

 It sounds like the material the frizzen was made from does not have sufficient carbon content to harden properly. I never heard of your lock maker. It pretty hard to beat Chambers, or Davis, for good locks that actually function.

  Hungry Horse

[Joe S]

1.  Kibbler says loss of magnetic behavior (Curie point) + 100 degrees.

2.  You could case harden the face.  That’s fast and easy, but will have to be redone periodically as the face wears.

3.  You could reface it with a piece of good steel.  Old files are ideal, or you can buy some 1095.  The new face can either be brazed or riveted on – both methods are traditional.  I did this with a Rifle Shoppe frizzen that I couldn’t harden and was very pleased with the result.

[Jay Close]

There is some possibility you're getting surface decarburization. This is fooling you into thinking the frizzed is soft --- it is, but only on the surface. On similar projects, often the test file will bite for a couple of strokes, then slide as the soft skin is removed. Just a thought --- Cheers

[somehippy]

Thank you all for the replies.  I forgot to ad, I did heat with oxy/acetalyne and used a fuel rich flame to try to preserve the carbon content. I too thought, it was just the surface stuff filling off easy, but after polishing with 400 and 800 grit and some stones, the flint still seemed to gouge it up in test cycling with few dull, lazy sparks.  It does seem harder now after the mineral oil, it is the crack however that worries me and if it can be or is worth fixing, thanks.

[bob in the woods]

I first met john Clark some 38 years ago. He had his "Factor's " rifle and a pistol on display, and was selling his Clark locks and kits.  I believe that the Gun shop in Colonial Williamsburg used at least a couple of his locks on pistols .  A friend bought a Clark lock in kit form and never did get together and working. It had a reputation as a difficult build.
Can you weld repair that small crack?

[JoeG]

I never heard of your lock maker.

John Clark is in Toronto, Canada. And has been making locks that I know of since the 1970's.
He was making a Durs Egg before anyone else was producing them. His locks were well made and sought
after at the time.

[somehippy]

I first met john Clark some 38 years ago. He had his "Factor's " rifle and a pistol on display, and was selling his Clark locks and kits.  I believe that the Gun shop in Colonial Williamsburg used at least a couple of his locks on pistols .  A friend bought a Clark lock in kit form and never did get together and working. It had a reputation as a difficult build.
Can you weld repair that small crack?

That's what I was wondering, I only have access to a stick welder or a mig (and I'm not much of a welder).  And I doubt solder will be of much help.  I just didn't know how to go about welding the hardened piece and if there were any precautions to go along with it. 

Thanks

[Mark Elliott]

If the frizzen is cracked, it will break eventually.   You need to replace it.  

In order to heat treat your frizzen properly, you need to know what type of steel it is.    It is best to get heat treating instructions from the lock maker.  

The problem with heat treating frizzens is that they must be  hard on the very surface and that is a problem as the carbon required to harden the steel, burns out of the surface while heating to recrystallization temperature.    In the past, I have used a hardening compound (Kasenite) on the frizzen face when heating it.   Lately,  I have just been packing my frizzens in charcoal to heat them for hardening.    Jim Chambers recommends heating the frizzens with a carburizing flame of a gas torch.    There are lots of ways to put carbon into the frizzen face for hardening.  

[LRB]

  Unless one goes to extreme heats and time in the heating process, carbon loss at the surface is very minor. Only a few thousandths. Easy to grind away to hard steel.

[Bob Roller]

I never heard of your lock maker.

John Clark is in Toronto, Canada. And has been making locks that I know of since the 1970's.
He was making a Durs Egg before anyone else was producing them. His locks were well made and sought
after at the time.

The last time I saw John Clark was in 2008 at the CLA/Lexington event. He had some
locks then.I have made up two on his parts, Maybe the Durs Egg frizzen can be adapted
from the L&R version. If he's working in Toronto he's probably in the phone book.

Bob Roller

[Mike C]

clarkindustries.on.ca
905-936-2131

The last time I spoke with John Clark he told me he used ball bearing steel to make his crosses.
Mike C

[rich pierce]

I have that lock in kit form in my parts bin. Very similar to Durs Egg lock. You could grind and braze that frizzen crack and braze a new face on it, or use the Durs Egg frizzen which may harden better.  

[Mike C]

Crosses??? This internet device tries to anticipate the next word often with questionable accuracy. I meant "frizzens".
Mike C

[jerrywh]

 sounds like low carbon content to me.  The crack is probably from over heating it. The crack doesn't mean it will ever break. It should be annealed and pack hardened. You could weld it and then anneal it.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

John is an interesting man.  I met him in the early 70's - bought "Thoughts on the ...  Rifle" for $50 from him then, as well as a Reedy rifle kit.  That made up into a very nice .40 cal rifle and it wound up in Hugh Toenjes collection.  More recently, I bought a scale propeller for my 1/4 scale Albatros DVa...I think that too was $50.  The Clark lock makes up into a most serviceable lock. I still have John's original brochures for it and his other products...nearly 50 years ago - WOW!