Best method to cut an existing stock for a new buttplate?

[Dave Patterson]

Greetings, all; longtime lurker/brand new member here. 

I recently made a pretty good trade for The Bride's first muzzleloader; like most of us, she's got some issues that make it difficult to find her an off-the-shelf rifle that will work optimally for her - and many don't work for her at all.

Short version is, I found a secondhand, unfired T/C Cherokee with both .45 and .32 cal barrels in the local pawnshop; hauled her in to let her shoulder it, and I ended up walking out with a brand new baby front-stuffer shooter.

She didn't like T/C's factory stock finish, and asked me to strip it and refinish:  done.  After looking at dozens of photos of classic Plains rifles, she didn't like the look of the triggerguard anymore, and asked me to find and mount one more appropriate:  got her a brass Leman-style from TOW:  done.

But the big issue I'm facing (always put off the painful, right?) is the buttstock:  the factory length of pull is still a bit long for her, and after shooting both hers and mine, she's decided she greatly prefers a more curved buttplate.  So again, I got her a (steel) Leman-style plate from Track.

Now, here's the rub:  no one's EVER gonna mistake me for a gun-builder.  To top it off, we've recently moved 125 miles, and most of my shop tools and handtools are in storage - in the last town (waiting for construction season to slow down for winter, to go retrieve our storage).  I've got basic handtools:  carpenters' handsaws, coping saw, hacksaws, etc, but no bandsaw, etc... and no vise, as yet.

Anyone have any suggestions on the best, and safest, way to cut-in a new buttplate profile on an existing stock?  If it was still a plank, it'd be comparatively simple...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Hi Dave, and welcome to this site...you'll find a warm welcome here and as much advice as you can stand.

Without the correct tools, you are going to be challenged in inletting a new butt plate.  You need to hold the stock securely and have very sharp tools for this job, otherwise it will look like a cobble job for certain.  Sorry for the truth.  Be patient, my man, and do it correctly.

[SingleMalt]

I agree.  Without proper tooling, it's a mess in the making. Didn't T/C make a boy's stocked rifle?  Maybe that's an alternative.

[Dave Patterson]

Thanks for the response, guys... and for the truth, hard as it may sound.

I'd already decided on investing as much patience as needed here; looked to me like getting in a rush would be an unparalleled opportunity to botch things up irreparably.  

I know this whole operation is a case of doing it bass-tailwards, but it is what it is, and at this point, short of building her an entirely new and custom-fit rifle from Square #1, I don't see any way around always being stuck with cutting-down a stock for her (she's already looking at different classics, looking for her next couple rifles:  she'll "need" a .54 cap elk rifle, and "really likes" the early Tennessee school.. and showing her photos of the .45 Kibler SMR flinter kit was a SERIOUS error in financial planning!)

So, at this point, I'm thinking I'm gonna be patient and find a bandsaw:  shim it so it doesn't even wiggle, and go that route.

Thank you, folks; I appreciate any and all input.

[Bob Roller]

Thanks for the response, guys... and for the truth, hard as it may sound.

I'd already decided on investing as much patience as needed here; looked to me like getting in a rush would be an unparalleled opportunity to botch things up irreparably.  

I know this whole operation is a case of doing it bass-tailwards, but it is what it is, and at this point, short of building her an entirely new and custom-fit rifle from Square #1, I don't see any way around always being stuck with cutting-down a stock for her (she's already looking at different classics, looking for her next couple rifles:  she'll "need" a .54 cap elk rifle, and "really likes" the early Tennessee school.. and showing her photos of the .45 Kibler SMR flinter kit was a SERIOUS error in financial planning!)

So, at this point, I'm thinking I'm gonna be patient and find a bandsaw:  shim it so it doesn't even wiggle, and go that route.

Thank you, folks; I appreciate any and all input.

Build her a 58 caliber Elk rifle styled like the English sporting rifles with a shotgun butt. It can use a ball or a bullet and
the shotgun butt will help with recoil.Pecatonica has precarves for these and other hardware.On the high $$ side,Rod England
can furnish a top of heap set of parts. <rtengnad864@AOL.com>.

Bob Roller

[Pete G.]

Be aware that even the best cut from a band saw only gives you a good place to start. The rest is done with transfer color ( I use soot from a kerosene lamp) and sharp chisels and scrapers.

Another issue is that the stock gets smaller as it gets shorter, so finding a good butt plate might be problematic. The TOW catalog has full sized photos, which can be a good tool for something like this.


Incidentally, congratulations on have a bride that wants to participate. A lot of guys have a wife that will put up with this hobby, but it is the fortunate few who have one that wants to be part of it. Consider yourself blessed, even if it does cause havoc with financial planning. To paraphrase Admiral Farragut "@!*% the dollars; Full speed ahead".

[frogwalking]

I am an amateur and don't enjoy installing butt plates.  Having said that, I often find myself with an inletted (barrel) and partially shaped stock.  This makes inletting the buttplate more difficult than putting it into a blank.  Nothing is square, so how does one hold it, and how do you even draw the outline for the plate.  I do what has been suggested, and know in advance there will be a lot of hand work.  Some rifle buttplates have the top return parallel and that is what I try very hard to cut straight and "level", inletting the remainder of the butt plate to align with it.  The last couple of rifles, I actually cut out with a coping saw, having marked what I thought was a reasonable facsimile of the curve on either side.  I sawed a little, checked the bottom, sawed some more.  It really only takes about 10 or 15 minutes of actual sawing.  Then, adjust the flat portion for the return, and begin the marking and moving process.  Some times I will repeat this many more times than I want to admit here in front of God and everybody.  Not being a professional, it does not matter how long it takes me, as log as I don't screw it up or wear.

(I am not an armature, but an amateur.  I don't know much about electricity.)

[Dave Patterson]

[/quote]

Build her a 58 caliber Elk rifle styled like the English sporting rifles with a shotgun butt. It can use a ball or a bullet and
the shotgun butt will help with recoil.Pecatonica has precarves for these and other hardware.On the high $$ side,Rod England
can furnish a top of heap set of parts. <rtengnad864@AOL.com>.

Bob Roller
[/quote]

Interesting: I was just looking at some English sporting rifle designs, with her elk rifle in mind. 

Thanks for pointing some new directions; hadn't thought of checking Pecatonica, and hadn't even heard of Rod England... let alone having his web address. 

Thank you, Sir!

[Dave Patterson]

Be aware that even the best cut from a band saw only gives you a good place to start. The rest is done with transfer color ( I use soot from a kerosene lamp) and sharp chisels and scrapers.

Another issue is that the stock gets smaller as it gets shorter, so finding a good butt plate might be problematic. The TOW catalog has full sized photos, which can be a good tool for something like this.


Incidentally, congratulations on have a bride that wants to participate. A lot of guys have a wife that will put up with this hobby, but it is the fortunate few who have one that wants to be part of it. Consider yourself blessed, even if it does cause havoc with financial planning. To paraphrase Admiral Farragut "@!*% the dollars; Full speed ahead".

Good point about the stock getting smaller, the farther you go: was planning on setting the comb area, then grinding or filing as needed.

[Dave Patterson]

I am an armature and don't enjoy installing butt plates.  Having said that, I often find myself with an inletted (barrel) and partially shaped stock.  This makes inletting the buttplate more difficult than putting it into a blank.  Nothing is square, so how does one hold it, and how do you even draw the outline for the plate.  I do what has been suggested, and know in advance there will be a lot of hand work.  Some rifle buttplates have the top return parallel and that is what I try very hard to cut straight and "level", inletting the remainder of the butt plate to align with it.  The last couple of rifles, I actually cut out with a coping saw, having marked what I thought was a reasonable facsimile of the curve on either side.  I sawed a little, checked the bottom, sawed some more.  It really only takes about 10 or 15 minutes of actual sawing.  Then, adjust the flat portion for the return, and begin the marking and moving process.  Some times I will repeat this many more times than I want to admit here in front of God and everybody.  Not being a professional, it does not matter how long it takes me, as log as I don't screw it up or wear it out.

Was planning on starting out conservatively, and setting that top angle to match the comb, and matching the toe of the plate to the toe of the stock, then having her do some trial shooting. 

It's encouraging to hear there's so little time spent on the actual sawing, even with a coping saw.  I'm actually reasonably competent with a coping saw:  grew up in a family hardware store, with a Dad who had spent his high school years (graduated in 1936) cutting clock face parts for the local jeweler/clock maker; Pop was pretty particular about making sure his only baby boy could operate a coping saw, carpenters' saws, etc. 

You know, this thread is turning into a pretty doggone decent compilation of suggestions and how-to's...

[Herb]

I lay the butt plate on the stock with the back at the length of pull I want and then trace the inside curve of the butt plate on the stock.  The BP is held with the return correctly aligned with the comb and on that line or a little under it to allow sanding the comb down to the return.  It is tricky to get the inside curve of the BP correct.  I then saw the flat for the return shelf and cut it to forward length.  Next I use a hacksaw and keeping it at right angles across the stock, cut down on the outside of the curve.  If the curve is too steep for the blade to follow, back up and cut some relief.  The frame will not allow the blade to cut the full length, so I then turn the stock over and cut from the bottom to meet the cut from the top.  They usually don't match up, and this is where rasping comes in.  I have also used a coping saw, but prefer a hacksaw.  The sawed curve won't match the BP exactly, and this is where smoke fitting is done.  But I doubt that a bandsawed cut would match exactly, either.  You have to work at keeping the BP return aimed at the tang and parallel to the comb line.  A lot of cutting and fitting, but this is how I do it.

[little joe]

Get on utube and  watch Gunsmith of Williiamsburg. No bandsaw, no power tools  just patience and soot black.

[Bob Roller]

Build her a 58 caliber Elk rifle styled like the English sporting rifles with a shotgun butt. It can use a ball or a bullet and
the shotgun butt will help with recoil.Pecatonica has precarves for these and other hardware.On the high $$ side,Rod England
can furnish a top of heap set of parts. <rtengnad864@AOL.com>.

Bob Roller
[/quote]

Interesting: I was just looking at some English sporting rifle designs, with her elk rifle in mind. 

Thanks for pointing some new directions; hadn't thought of checking Pecatonica, and hadn't even heard of Rod England... let alone having his web address. 

Thank you, Sir!
[/quote]

My apologies to you and Rod England. I mistyped his Email and it is <rtengland864@aol.com>
Don Brown of Yakima,Wa. was the "go to" man for Alex Henry style sporting and target rifle parts.
He could make you a complete gun with all the bells and whistles or sell you a kit or a few screws.
Don passed away in 2008 and we didn't know if anyone would pick his parts and equipment up or
not. Rod is a VERY capable craftsman and now has all of that and is offering guns,parts or whatever
is needed to make or have made an English sporting or target rifle.Check with Rod and see what he has
available. These guns were made with both straight and pistol grip profiles so now it's up to you.

Bob Roller