Bedford rifle questions...

[Osprey]

I'm looking at a Bedford flint gun for a future project, but I don't see many of them on here.  Anyone built one?  Any tips or pics?  I just got the Whisker book and it looks like they have awfully thin butts on them.  What about barrels, no details in that book but they look pretty straight, were they mainly octagon or were some swamped?  Got a buddy that lives on the Beford/Fulton Co line that I may make one for next year, just starting on ideas...

[t.caster]

Bedfords are often referred to as hockey sticks for their skinny stocks and lack of architecture. They were made famous in the percussion cap era and I've read there are no known flintlocks in existence. L&R does make a nice flinter for builders though. I've built them both ways and sold them so I don't have any digital pics. Generally, being a later-1840-1850s period, I think they were mostly small caliber straight oct. barrels, maybe some tapers and swamps though. If you like to do LOTS of inlays, this may be the one for you!
With the skinny comb and long drop I find they bruise my cheekbone even in .45 cal with a light load. The earlier rifles just fit me better and are more of a challenge to build. It's one of those things you either love or hate.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This image is from "The Kentucky Rifle" by Lindsay.  The text describes the rifle as made by Peter White, New Berlin, Union Co., PA.  But I think of this as in the style of the Bedford rifles.  If you are going to make it a flinter, I believe you could use this one for reference.  Others (like those with knowledge) may disagree.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Correction.  I read a little further from Lindsay's lovely book, and learned (again) that this rifle is NOT by White of Union Co. but by Jacob Ruslin of Bedford.  It is rifle No. 62 in his book, and is pretty pointed when it comes to it's origin.   So there it is...a flint rifle from Bedford Co.  I knew I had the right idea.

[David Rase]

Osprey,
Years ago I made myself a Bedford rifle.  I studied as I went and by the time I was finished I found out a bunch of thins about Bedfords that I did not know.  I made mine with a swamped barrel, learned that a lot of Bedfords were straight barreled.  If you take note you will see that a lot of bedford tangs are straight.  Further study revealed that a few of the Bedfords had there barrel pins hidden behind the forestock inlays, in other words they were non removable.  The straight barrels used a hooked tennon and were slide forward to remove.  Another distinction is the patchbox.  The early Bedfords had more elongated loops on the patch box side plates and the later Bedfords had round loops. 
Bedfords are neat rifles.  I would love to make an early style one i flint sometime.  I have a great little .40 caliber straight barrel that would make a fantastic early flintlock Bedford. 
@!*% you Osprey, now you got my wheels turning again as I resurrect a thought from the past.  Is there another Bedford in my future?
You can see my Bedford on the American Pioneer Video series on Contemporary Gunmakers Volumn 2.  It is easy to spot as it is the only freak'n percussion gun in the 2 tape series.  I have never overcome the trauma and since have not built another percussion gun.
DMR

[Osprey]

Rase, glad to be trouble, I'm proud to be an instigator.   

I'm very undecided on this one, it'll be for a friend that's not yet into flintlocks or older style guns, so not sure I want to start him with a skinny stock that'll beat him.  Got to be in .50 or .54, too, cause we may go on an elk hunt at some point.   My room-mate from college and grad school, also my accountant for the past 18 years.   Wouldn't even think about the Bedfords except for where he lives, technically in Fulton but he can look across the valley at Bedford Co.

Will hopefully be a make-up present, I plan to !$@! him off by killing a turkey off the mountain he lives on this spring, something he hasn't done yet.  See above first sentence...

[Joe Stein]

Osprey,  You're going to have email in a little while re Bedford rifles.
-Joe

[jpldude]

Here's an original Bedford, I took these at Larry Gardner's shop:

[rsells]

Houston Harrison made a drawing of a Bedford county rifle that I used to make a couple with several years ago.  I think Track of the Wolf still sells the drawing.  I used to make the template to rough cut the stock.  I made 13/16 X 42 .40 cal. rifles and they came out well.  I fell in love with these rifles because I had a friend that had Houston make two of these using the print for his sons.  Man they were great.  Houston makes super guns.  I had to add a small piece to the toe of the butt plates that I got from the supplier to match the drawing I got from Houston.
                                                                    Roger Sells
                         

[Herb]

Osprey (I saw one yesterday), get Vaughn Whisker, Sr. and James Biser Whisker's book "Gunsmiths of Bedford, Somerset and Fulton Counties".  You can probably get it through an interlibrary loan.  I have it and it shows a lot of Bedford flintlocks.  P. 51: Henry Albright restocked by John Amos (looks like Thomas Oldham's work to me).  P. 73 and 76,  James Clark, P. 75, Sheets and Clark.  P. 101, 103, 104, 105, 107, 108 and 109, Joseph Mills.  P. 131, 133, 135, Jaacob Stoudenour.  P. 139 Benjamin Franklin Troutman, P. 141, 142,  Daniel B. Troutman.  P. 145, Issac Wendle. P. 147,  John Whetstone and P. 149, and P. 150,Peter White, these last three don't look like Bedfords.

See also James B. Whisker and Lary W. Yantz,"Gunsmiths of Bedford, Fulton, Huntingdon, & Somerset Counties".  Flintlock on cover.  P. 49, John Amos.  P.66, James Clark.  P. 91, Levi Fondersmith.  P. 102, 103 (not Bedford style) Andrew Kopp.  P.121 and on cover, 122 (2),  124, 125, 126 (2), Joseph Mills.  P. 133, Nicolas Shenefelt.  P. 157 Stoudenour.  P, 171, Daniel B. Troutman.

See also Calvin Hetrick's "The Bedford County Rifle and Its Makers".  P. 4, and 38,  Peter White.  P. 37, Joseph Mills.  And "Kentucky Rifles and Pistols, 1750-1850".  Page 33, Jacob Ruslig.  P.34, Peter White and John White.

I have never heard of a swamped barrel Bedford.  They are slim with long barrels, usually of small caliber.  I built a Thomas Oldham .40 caplock with a 42" barrel and like the Bedford style for shooting.

[Joe Stein]

Osprey,
Here is your barrel: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4104.0
13/16 .50 or 7/8 54 would be perfect.
-Joe

[Osprey]

Thanks for the replies and pics!

JPL, I like that rifle.  The Whisker and Yantz book had some mention of shorter barreled 'cattle guns', that really interests me.

Joe, I hadn't caught that post, I didn't know anyone made a 7/8" .54  Very interesting.   

[Roger Fisher]

Osprey,
Here is your barrel: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4104.0
13/16 .50 or 7/8 54 would be perfect.
-Joe

Well now I gotta tell ya, not enough meat in those barrel sizes to keep that cussin drum in where it belongs to let me sleep at night.  Plus to get 'em to print holes where you want them those caliberes need a good load to do so!   And to add with such a load and a skinny butt plate that has to be mounted out on the arm to avoid that point she will bite you pretty good!