Lock work?

[Mauser06]

There's always talk on here of certain locks needing work etc...


I looked through the tutorials and couldn't find anything..

I'd love to learn how to make my locks function better..faster..etc....

[L. Akers]

IMO all commercial locks need work.  It's a matter of polishing, truing surfaces, reducing tolerances and balancing springs.  If that is beyond your ken, buy a Roller.

[P.W.Berkuta]

There's always talk on here of certain locks needing work etc...


I looked through the tutorials and couldn't find anything..

I'd love to learn hot to make my locks function better..faster..etc....

As Mr. Akers said you will need to polish the contact surfaces but I would leave the sear nose and tumbler notches alone. I find that most of the problems come from the castings themselves when they are being prepped for assembly - i.e. hole size, surface flatness, and screw length/ diameter. Some of these issuses you can't change after the parts are hardened but the casting marks can be removed if necessary. Remember that the people who assemble these locks have "good and bad" days also.

[Bob Roller]

IMO all commercial locks need work.  It's a matter of polishing, truing surfaces, reducing tolerances and balancing springs.  If that is beyond your ken, buy a Roller.

Thanks a lot for the nice remarks about my work but I don't know when I will take any more work in
as far as locks and triggers are concerned.
My energy level as this is written is low and and I am waiting for the results of blood tests taken on the
22nd of this month.
I also saw a comment pertaining to people who can do little in the way of making things or repair work
of any kind. Several years ago one of the ladies that worked at the bank lost a screw out of her glasses
and nobody had any that would fit the hole. I took them to my shop and made an M2x.5 and installed it,
took them back to the bank and handed them to her.When I told her I made the screw she thought it was
a miracle. I told her I have a shop and that was no job at all and one of her coworkers told her there was
all kinds of odd work came out of my shop.Neither of our sons who are now 46 and 44 nor their sons have
any interest in learning about anything that isn't hooked to a screen. Two of these boys are in Texas so
not much hope there and the one here in Huntington shows no interest.The two girls I didn't expect any
interest from.

Bob Roller

[Mark Elliott]

There isn't a lot you can do to a lock once it is assembled that will make a lot of difference without rebuilding it.   Basically,  you can stone and polish the bearing surfaces.    On most Chambers, this won't buy you much as they are already properly built.    Sometimes the sear doesn't clear the fly easily and a little stoning is required here and there to fix that.   

If you are real picky about the very best lock performance, then you will have to bush the tumbler axles, true and polish the tumbler, and carefully fit everything together.   If the tumbler isn't in quite square to the plate, you will also have to do this.   You may have to make and fit new sear and frizzen screws to take out slop.   Then there is spring tuning, but I usually don't bother with that, as most springs are pretty well matched.    You would do these things only if you are a top competitive shooter.   For anyone else,  it wouldn't make any difference.

I wouldn't recommend you do anything other than polish bearing surfaces unless you really understand lock geometry pretty well.   Oh,  and use a good machine oil on the lock wear surfaces.   I use Breakfree.   

   

[rich pierce]

Case hardening the lock plate could help, so long as it does not get warped.

Issues I have seen occasionally with locks from all makers:

1) clearance of mainspring on inner surface of lockplate.  File inner surface of mainspring if needed to prevent it scraping along (friction).

2) clearance of frizzen spring on outer surface of lockplate.  File inner surface of mainspring if needed to prevent scraping. 

3) friction or bad camming action of the frizzen toe on the frizzen spring resulting in frizzen not flopping open.  Ideally the frozen flops open when the lock is fired once the flint passes the entire frizzen face.  This is pretty common and hard for the amateur to fix. Plus it can be caused by other defects- a soft frizzen, bad angle of the cock striking the frizzen, friction of pan cover against barrel, etc.  This one is tricky.

4) sear spring arm jams up against the sear boss where the sear bolt goes through. Shorten the sear spring arm, and of course, polish both the contact surfaces.

5) bad camming action of the mainspring on the tumbler.  The hook of the mainspring should travel to the very end of the toe of the tumbler for maximum leverage, but sometimes does not even on locks from best makers.  This results in weak mainspring action, a slower lock, weaker sparking, frizzen not flipping open, etc.

[Mauser06]

Thanx for all the info!    I appreciate it!!! 

[rich pierce]

Just keep in mind that any work other than polishing will void your warranty.  Can't expect the maker to fix a lock that's been modified.  When you compare flintlocks to other sophisticated mechanisms they are an incredible bargain.

[Dave B]

Back in the early 80's when I was going to school in Minnesota for Prosthetic & Orthotic Tech. I met at the Twin-cities Muzzle-loaders Club  Bob Traurig (spl?). He had an article published in a blackpowder magazine that walked you through the basics of lock tuning. The only flint lock I had at the time was a CVA colonial pistol with that cast in engraving on the lock plate. Using his information I went thru that lock and its performace was much improved vs just out of the box. He talked about what others have just said but he also discussed the need for the frizzen to spring clear the pan after it reaches the point where the lower jaws plate line is parallel to the frizzens pan cove as the frizzen is driven forward by the flint. Meaning when the forward motion of the flint jaw driving the flint down the face of the frizzen you want the frizzen to jump out of the way before the flint reaches the bottom of the frizzen face.  IIRC the angle is between 15-18 degrees.  I still have the magazine around here some where.

[David R. Pennington]

One thing that maybe doesn't affect performance but really helps the feel is to polish the outside face of the tumbler where the sear rides as you cock the lock. Before it feels gritty, after like silk.

[bob in the woods]

All that has been said is really good advice, however one thing I've found to help with lock performance is to polish the pan surface and [ ex a Siler ]  enlarge the pan creating a larger surface area for the priming.

[elkhorne]

Bob,
I love your comment about your sons. I am glad I'm not the only one frustrated with this issue of our kids and their total lack of interest in anything that has relationships to history, handmade creativity, building anything with their hands! But, and that is a big BUT, they have never known the satisfaction of creating something out of wood and or metal that is useful and functional and to me if they go through life never experiencing that feeling, they are truly the losers. I have tried to get my sone interested in building longrifles, given him books, tools, help and still he stiff arms me as far as building a longrifle - very frustrating! Bob, you are right on the money about the ones with no interest in anything that is not tied to a screen. My grandson is 12 and sits gaming at the computer for hours each day - has no interest in working with me out at our place? Good luck with yours.
elkhorne

[M. E. Pering]

I have to concur that almost all lock straight from the manufacturer have a bit to be desired.  As well as all that others have said above, the fit of the frizzen to the pan should be addressed as well.  Make sure you can't see any light through it when you look at it from the barrel side, or from any side for that matter.  But another important thing that can compensate for many lock imperfections is trigger placement. 

With a simple trigger, if you place it for maximum leverage, your lock will seem to work more smoothly.  However, if you have a 2-3 lb. trigger pull, weaknesses in the lock exhibit themselves more apparently.  I always shoot for around 3 oz. trigger release, but I think anything less than 8 oz. should be fine.  This does not apply to set triggers, as should be obvious.  This is just my personal opinion, of course, and I am sure some will disagree.  But this is what has worked well for me. 

Matt

[Mauser06]

Thanx for all the great info!!!



It's sad to hear about the youth... especially from very experienced, well known guys in the long rifle world....

I've been told many times I was born about 300 years too early...I'm 29 now and just completed my first "build".   I've been shooting a flintlock since I was 16 and I've been deeply hooked ever since...i also taught myself to trap, I run a coon dog....in the winter I like to load the truck with the flu Glock and bag, trapping gear and coon dog for company...we wake up before sunrise and he walks the line with me..come back and we eat breakfast and he takes a nap while I go deer hunt...


My dad taught me to hunt and fish but when it comes to most of what I've gotten into I don't have anyone to personally help...dad had his buddy take me to the range with my flintlock the first time so I learned the safety aspects of it...he knew the basics but I quickly learned much more...

If my dad could build a long rifle I'd been beside him from the time I could stand with a rubber chisel im sure....


It's scary to think about the actual history that is being lost... forgotten about... technological advances and such are great..making life easier etc...heck, I couldn't do most of what I do without learning from the internet...

But one phrase dad always told me was "don't forget where you came from".  As a kid that never meant a thing...now I'm older..I realize what he actually meant...and I think of it even deeper...I'm thinking about digging into my family genealogy too...I'd like to know how far back I can track my Pennsylvania roots...dad only knows back to the coal mining era...but his dad was German...we may have roots deeper than that...that'd be pretty awesome to date back and tie last names to a known gun builder...



I often hunt "suburbia". The same kinda places I grew up...when I grew up we had forts and fire pits all through the woods..dams in the creeks.. summertimewe would "camp" for days on end... hunting in the same woods now you don't see that...drive through the neighborhood and you rarely see a pack of boys raising heck on their bikes..that's all we did...just don't see kids "being kids" anymore...

[Swab]

Back in the early 80's when I was going to school in Minnesota for Prosthetic & Orthotic Tech. I met at the Twin-cities Muzzle-loaders Club  Bob Traurig (spl?). He had an article published in a blackpowder magazine that walked you through the basics of lock tuning. The only flint lock I had at the time was a CVA colonial pistol with that cast in engraving on the lock plate. Using his information I went thru that lock and its performace was much improved vs just out of the box. He talked about what others have just said but he also discussed the need for the frizzen to spring clear the pan after it reaches the point where the lower jaws plate line is parallel to the frizzens pan cove as the frizzen is driven forward by the flint. Meaning when the forward motion of the flint jaw driving the flint down the face of the frizzen you want the frizzen to jump out of the way before the flint reaches the bottom of the frizzen face.  IIRC the angle is between 15-18 degrees.  I still have the magazine around here some where.

Perhaps that was the bit written by Arthur Whitham aka Cascabel?