Ident. proof marks?

[Longknife]

Can anyone identify these proof marks??? I know they are very hard to see, stamped real deep. Thanks, Ed

[490roundball]

Ed

Any other hints - country or maker - rifle or shotgun?

its tough since there is basically just an outline

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

Rick

[E.vonAschwege]

Look like English Birmingham proofs to me.  Same as on a rough halfstock fowler I have.  What kind of gun is it?
-Eric

[T*O*F]

English proofs were generally stamped on the bottom, along with the bore size.  There are several countries that use crowns as proof stamping.

Also, have you removed the barrel and looked underneath?

Run a yellow crayon over the marks and polish them with a rag.  The crayon will fill the nooks and crannies and give more definition.  Then reshoot the pics using as much zoom as you can.  Often shooting them at a slight angle instead of head-on will also give better definition.

[smart dog]

I agree with Eric.  I think they are English proofs, possibly Birmingham but not definitely. They look like Birmingham pistol marks but they also could be private tower marks. Many English guns had proof marks showing on the top left oblique flat of the barrel near the breech.  While several countries had marks with crowns, other than England, I could not find one even close to those marks in my reference books.

dave

[Longknife]

Thanks, Guys I applied some chalk and was able to  see a "P" at the bottom and a "C" at the right side or the rt.  mark so I believe it is the 1868 to 1925 Birmingham proof mark for black powder shotguns on the chart that Rick posted. I  still can not ident. the proof mark nearest the breech. This gun is a half stock flint lock in the english style with an unusally long barrel, 43 3/4 inches, 16 gauge. Although the marks indicate an english barrel the gun looks Belgian, its not really the fine quality of an english gun and kinda late for a flinter too. I will get some good pictures soon and post them too. Thanks again, Ed

[E.vonAschwege]

Hey Ed,
   I noticed that there aren't many proof marks in that chart that go earlier than the 1850's, and we know they were used well before those dates.  I'm pretty sure a similar (if not exact) stamp was used WELL before the 1868 date stated on the chart.  The stamp "E C P" under a crown is on a high quality over/under flintlock pistol I have that was probably made in the 1820's or 30's by Hole.   I don't know what the proof mark is nearest the breech, but it's the same one on my halfstock fowler (that I'm also fairly sure is English, signed J.Clark on the lock, and London on the barrel).  Please post some more photos, European guns are just as fun to look at as American (and often cheaper!). 
-Eric