Author Topic: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment  (Read 2914 times)

Offline David Rase

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1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« on: August 23, 2016, 02:11:19 AM »
I am working on an 1803 Harpers Ferry intermittently and am getting ready to attach the under rib.  I am trying to find out if the rib was generally soldered, e.g. brazed or was it riveted.  The barrel is plenty beefy to rivet.  I can fasten it either way.  I prefer to rivet as there is less cleanup than riveting but want to be historically correct.
Thanks for the input.
David   

Offline Mike_StL

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 04:05:41 AM »
I went through that decision recently when I finally decided to finish my 1803 Harper's Ferry.  Mine is the Track of the Wolf Special Project Parts Kit (Translation: Rifle Shoppe).  ToW now has their own kit.  Back to the under rib.

The real problem is the fact that the barrel is round.  There was no good way to clamp the rib to the round barrel for soldering.  Most previous experience was attaching a rib to the bottom flat of an octagon barrel.  Measuring the thickness of the barrel wall showed that we had enough thickness to get three threads in a 6-48 thread.  Next 5 screws were turned and threaded.  The top slot was left high to use to turn in the screw.  The thimbles were placed on the rib and five locations were marked for the screws.  The rib was drilled with the tap sized drill.  The barrel was installed in the mill and the lowest point was determined and the first hole was located, drilled and tapped.  The hole in the rib was opened to the screw body and the rib was now located by that screw.  The other four holes were worked the same way.  The rib, thimbles were polished and the screws were tightened.  The rib looked good and on the bottom.  Locktite red was put on the threads of the screws and tightened down.  The screw heads were filed off and peened to fill any gaps.  Riveting would work about the same way and would probably be quicker.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 05:06:37 PM »
Its extremely unlikely they were riveted or screwed originally but one never knows. I would solder it. "Tin" both surfaces. Use soapstone to control the tinning. Use iron mechanics wire to clamp it in place it heat till done. I would use 50-50 since its low temp and will be plenty strong with the contact area.

There is a hint here at page 24 of "We Proceeded On" May 2006.    http://www.1803harpersferry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vol32no2p20.pdf
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 05:46:24 PM »
That is considerably more than a hint Dan.  It says the rib's thimbles were brazed to the rib, and that the rib was soldered to the barrel.  Great reference material, and I'd say David could safely go with that as his authority.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 07:30:14 PM »
 I have brazed the thimbles to the ribs and also I have soldered the thimbles and the rib on all at the same time.
 I had a little problem when brazing the thimbles to the rib because the rib tended to warp some when being brazed and Needed to be straightened . The best way I found was to place an aluminum RR in the thimbles to hold them in line and solder the whole assembly on at once using paste solder. With the paste solder there is no need to tin before hand. Put the paste solder between all the joints and then wipe off all the excess with a rag. Then heat until the solder flows and let cool. Shazam!! very simple and almost no cleanup. Sand all the joint areas clean before assembly. 
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2016, 06:55:07 AM »
Solder used can depend on how the pipes are applied. If they are split type with the pipes attached to the side of the rib then brazing is more durable due to the small contact patch. If they have a lot of contact area, a flat filed on the rib and pipe, then soft solder is adequate. But the "English" attachment as seen on TOWs original Rigby plans is a cleaner install. But it WILL be more difficult and will warp the rib when using 1100-1200 f silver solder. On a rib that is screwed to the barrel I can usually fix this by careful placement of the screws to pull the rib down. A soldered rib will surely need to be straightened.  I wonder if back in the day they heated the entire rib assembly to prevent this? They did not have the torches we often use today that concentrate the heat. Lower temp silver solder might solve the problem but then strength may be a factor. English rifles often have a sling attachment point on the pipe and trusting soft solder for this application can result in repairs or even a bent barrel is it lands on a hard surface from off the shoulder.

Dan
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Offline David Rase

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Re: 1803 Harpers Ferry Rib attachment
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 04:42:16 PM »
There is a hint here at page 24 of "We Proceeded On" May 2006.    http://www.1803harpersferry.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/vol32no2p20.pdf
Dan,
Thank you for the reference.  I have printed it and will read it this evening after setting up for our gunmakers fair.  I plan on soldering the rib on.
David