Almost done with my Virginia rifle

[Tennessee.45]

Well I'm almost done with my first rifle, it's been a challenge and I've made my fair (or unfair ) share of mistakes. I'm not sure which was more aggravating the thimbles or the nose cap which I still have to play with. I still have to inlet the butt plate, cut the rear sight dovetail, finish shaping the stock and put a finish on everything, and of course cut the ramrod to length

I wanted to build the rifle based off an Early Winchester school, but that's not how it turned out. I was given some iron parts and decided to stick with iron. I thought I had ordered a .54 C weight but received a .58 C weight Rice barrel, the lock is a Davis "Early English" lock and the maple stock has really nice figure.


Looking at the picture the middle ramrod thimble looks too close to the front thimble but I measured three times and middle thimble is exactly 11" in front of the entry thimble and 11" behind the front thimble

[smylee grouch]

If the thimble is off, maybe you can still move it. You could trim down the lock panels a tad too. Looks like its going to be a nice rifle.

[Tennessee.45]

The lock panels are on the large side, I also need to fix a gap in the lock mortise where the chisel slipped (that ended up in stitches)

[Chowmi]

I think the RR pipes spacing may be an optical illusion from the photo.  How does it look in person?  If it looks right there, then don't worry.
You measured 3 times, and I did a rough measure of the blown up picture on my screen and I think you measured right.  You did right by placing the front RR pipe a ways back.  At first I thought it was too far back, but I looked in RCA and Gunsmiths of Grenville, and the old ones had them a fair ways back ( 3.5 - 5.0 inches, says Peter Alexander).  Another reason it may look a bit odd, is the distance that you have cut the forestock back for the muzzle cap, see my next point.

Probably too late now, but I think that if you make a normal sized nose cap, you will have an awful lot of barrel sticking out the front of it.  I don't know the Winchester style, do they have enormously long nose caps?  If you make the muzzle cap go almost to the muzzle, looks like it will be way way long. 


I agree that the lock mortise is a bit fat, especially at the tail and the top.  Hard to tell from the photo about the rest.  Pictures of the lock mortise would help.  I initially thought it was fat at front, but then thought maybe otherwise, hard to tell. 

I think it may be the angle of the photo, but how much of the side flats of the barrel are exposed above the fore stock?  Should be about half, maybe even a smidge more.  Looks like less, but I can see that the angle of the photo is from slightly below, which makes it look like less is exposed. 


Congrats on nearly finishing your first rifle, that is a big accomplishment.  I know, I'm not that many rifles ahead of you at all. 
My points are entirely about architecture, which is important, but I don't intend to diminish the fact that you built a rifle that will function, and most people won't notice these points. 

Post more detailed photos, I'm sure we would all love to see them and help if needed,

Cheers
Norm

[Tennessee.45]

The nose cap is long for the early Winchester, in person the pipes look normal. The stock needs to be thinned down a bit more, I'm just over half on the flats but still under 3/4, the lock panel is fat in the tail but not too bad on top, I think the angle of the picture is playing tricks...

[smylee grouch]

Hi Tennessee, it might be lighting but if it were mine, I would remove a little more wood just above the frizzen spring on the lock panel. I think that along with some off the rear lock panel would make it look more slender.

[SingleMalt]

I think it's going to be a fine looking rifle.  It's at the stage where you're bringing everything down to final size.

[Tennessee.45]

I still need to rub the bluing back on the parts and still need to do the butt plate and rear sight, I think I should've thinned the stock down some more, looking a slab sided and may still...but I would like your opinion. I'll try to get some close ups this week working nights doesn't give me much time during the day

[JB]

I'm no expert, but that looks great to me.  I love the color on the stock.

JB

[blackjack]

I like that coloring and striping in the stock as well--really looks classy.  

One thing that I noted you might want to think about for your next rifle.  The sideplate looks a little high and forward on the panel, and the panel is pretty large--a lot of wood there that might could have come off.  Take a look at how some sideplates are positioned and secured to the lock in Shumway, Alexander and others.  Often that lock bolt will be at an angle, either up/down or forward/backward to get the sideplate where you want it in relation to the lock.  Then you can shape that panel so it doesn't look like the sideplate is out of place.  It took me three rifles to figure that out and then to figure out a way to do it without nicking the barrel or the ramrod when positioning the lockbolt holes.

[Tennessee.45]

I agree! I'll try to position the lock and plate better next time,  I think the lock and touch hole could've been lower as well, I didn't notice it until I took those pics, I still feel like there is a lot of wood that should be removed...

[54ball]

 In my opinion that rifle is far, far from being finished. It's not too late for this one. There's plenty of wood left and there's lots of things you can do to finish it.

 If you are happy with it like it is, I'm happy too. On the other hand if want to improve the rifle and your skill, post some close photos. I'm sure there are many here who would offer help and advice if you ask for it.

 As I said there is plenty of wood there to do the final shaping. You might want to consider using files. rasps, chisels and scrapers especially for the rough shaping. If you use sand paper be sure to "back" it properly.

 You don't have to use that side plate. They are pretty simple to make and it's better to make one that fits instead trying to fit the rifle to one that does not.

 As said if you are happy I'm happy. You have already accomplished what most others only dream about.

[Tennessee.45]

I'm open to suggestions, the more I look at it the more I find that needs improving.

What areas would you like a close up of?

[BillPac]

Tennessee.45
The barrel exposure on the forend is not consistent and in most places you are not exposing enough of the barrel.  Look how low your nose cap is and try to carry that line all the way back to where the wood rises to meet the breech.

It appears that the lock panels are not clearly defined, they appear to roll into the wrist.

The lock panels could be narrowed a lot, especially on the top of the lock behind the hammer.
By lowering the molding on top edge of the lock you could take wood away from the tang area, generally a flat angle from the edge of the tang to the molding.

The cheek piece/comb/wrist area needs to be thinned to allow the wrist to flow back toward the cheek, both sides of the stock.

Hope you find this helpful.
BillP

[Tennessee.45]

I pulled the wood down on the barrel, still need to touch it up in places but it already looks better!

[54ball]

 Your side plate looks much better in the close up. I think some well thought out shaping of the lock panel will help a lot.

 Below I have linked 11 rifles and guns from the ALR museum. Look over them. Look and see how those makers accomplished the architecture in their rifles. Keep in mind photographs can be deceiving so look at how the light reflects and try to see...what you are seeing. If you can, study originals or good contemporaries in hand. Photos are one thing, but handling originals or well built contemporaries really makes a difference.

 With that said you can learn a lot from photographs. Try to look at them from a builders perspective and use your "mind's eye".

 The first is JP Beck who has a link to Winchester through Lauck. The last 2 are Lauck guns. The plainer Southern guns and rifles may show architecture better for you without the distraction of decoration.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24724.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4545.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4401.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4246.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30034.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2776.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14832.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8015.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3085.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24728.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3084.0

 
Here is Mr. Brooks Tutorial
http://americanlongrifles.org/PDF/tutorial.pdf

 The biggest mistake I see is what looks like the use of sandpaper without a good backing. Sandpaper is not the best tool for shaping fine detail and unbacked it tends to round over and obliterate fine detail.
 As far as shaping there are lots of things you can do and some that you are limited. For instance you can only bring down the tops of the side and lock panels as far as the lock bolt will allow. Thats OK the Southern G . B rifle linked above has rather high panels.

 I think it's best that you study the architecture of the originals and decide where and how you need to go about emulating those features. Most of it is just keeping at it.

 Lastly.....The butt plate
 Your rifle is pretty much unshaped from the lock panels back. The buttplate helps define that area. Just like the fore stock is based off the barrel, the buttstock is based off the buttplate. If you have decided not to use a butt plate the butt stock will need to be shaped as if it had a buttplate. The cheekpiece, the comb and the wrist all need some definition. The butt plate helps or somewhat provides the basis for the shape of the buttstock. Again if you are going with out one that area needs attention needs the definition as if it had a buttplate.

 You are doing great and what you have now is something to be proud of. Just keep tweaking at it. If you attempt to emulate good architectural features, some will not turn out as good as hoped....that's where experience comes in....if enough are attempted though... many will come out well and will only add to the quality of your rifle.

[Tennessee.45]

I do plan on using a butt plate, I need to look at pics to get an idea of what I want it to look like, I'll probably wait until I get the butt plate to shape the butt though. I used files and rasp and thought I would like the rounded look but after looking at originals and contemporaries I'm kicking myself...

[BillPac]

Tennessee.45
No need to kick yourself.  There is plenty of wood left on there to fix the lock panels.  You are doing well, just keep after it.
BillP