2 round ball guns with no group

[Barnstormer]

I have a .58 zuave that used to shoot RB pretty good.  I cleaned it well, (which I always do), and bore buttered it,, and hung it on the wall, as I began to use the TC Hawken.  I needed a gun for son-in-law so I took it to the range and wow, it won't group.  I used a brore scope and can see what must be corrosion in the burning chamber close to the breech, but the barrel looked good.  Also I let a buddy shoot the gun and he shot the steel ram rod out of the barrel.  There are no sign of bulging in the barrel but I suspect the crown is not good now either.  I have read of folks working the crown but I don't know how.  I was thinking of taking it to a gun smith for that.  IDK.  any GOOD Help! would be great. Thanks

I also have an extra TC Pennsylvainia Hunter, 1-66 barrel for thr TC Hawken so that I can practice shooting without getting the #### kicked out of my shoulder and a brused cheek bone.  I figuered the round ball barrel would be the answer.  I read here about lapping and fire lapping but, but like most forums, conflicting info on how to do it and what to use.  This was a new old stock barrel and hard to find, so I don't want to screw it up. I always shoot Precsion Bullet-- Dead Center conicle bullets in the 1-28 twist barrel,, so I don't know much about the round ball world of shooting problems.   so Any GOOD advice on directions or kits.  If I remember right the .015 patches were cut that I found,, but I will make sure next time I go to the range.  HELP!

[WadePatton]

On the 58 I'm going to guess that your load components changed a little bit, but you didn't adjust the load.  Did you attempt to work up a new load?  Patches sound thin as well.  There's a ton of good info on here with regard to thicker patches and tighter loading as well as crown thumbing.  I'd do all of those and work up/down the load to match the guns current attitude before attempting something as involved as lapping.

How bad is bad?  What's your group at what distance, components, and charge?  How good are you from a rest?-not being personal, but it all has to come together. The "team" here will get you straight.

[OldMtnMan]

I agree. More info on your loads.

While you're at it. Dump the bore butter.

[Maven]

Barnstormer, Why do you need/want to lap the new PA Hunter bbl.?  .50cal. T/C bbl's typically shoot accurately with .490" balls + .016" - .018" (compressed) pillow ticking, denim, muslin, or pocket drill patches.  Also, for range testing with patched balls in either rifle, try a liquid lube rather than Bore Butter.  E.g., spit patches work as does a 1 Ballistol : 6 water solution or even the bottled stuff T/C and others sell.

Btw, if the crown on the Zouave has minor damage, you can easily correct with 320 grit emery paper and the ball of your thumb.  Search the site for Daryl Sapergia's illustrated posts

[Daryl]

This picture says a lot. Turn the barrel every 15 seconds or so so the crown will come out perfectly centred.



Here's that gun's finished muzzle.



The barrel on the right, is my .58 Enfield - 48" twist.  You should make that factory sharp crown on that Zouave look like this. Then, the patches won't be cut by the muzzle as you try to load a snug combination.  Every .50 military rifle I have shot patched round balls in, was more accurate with the spherical projectiles than they were with Minnie balls.


 

[OldMtnMan]

What grit do you use Daryl?

[Daryl]

Normally 320 wet or dry in paper, or 320 Emery.  I've finished off using Taylor's lathe the odd time, with 320 at high speed for a nice polish, but the lathe not necessary.  The 20 bore barrel pictured as the one done in the first picture, was all by hand - and maybe 15 minutes total time.

[OldMtnMan]

Ok, thanks.

[RichG]

I think the patches t/c sold were .015 and the moulds were .440 .490. and .530. That doesn't mean you can't use something else. also your Hawken should shoot rb just fine as long as the loads aren't to heavy. I've played with a couple 50 cal hawkens and they usually shoot rb with 80gr+- of 3f. as to the crown, if it is damaged you should be able to see any dings or uneven wear.

[Daryl]

All commercial muzzle crowns are too sharp (machine cut angles) for using decent ball and patch combinations. They are very easily "fixed".