50 Cal barrel vs .490, .485 or .480ball

[Pat_Cameron]

I think I have an undersized bore on this barrel.
Getting a .490 ball started on a clean barrel can be very difficult.
Trying to load a .490 ball, even after the first shot is way too difficult.
I was going to order a mold for this gun and was wondering if I should go
with .485 or .480?
Did the frontiersmen of yesterday shoot round balls as close to the
barrel diameter as we do today?
Has anyone else here had to make a similar adjustment?

Thanks
Pat Cameron

[P.Bigham]

 Pat I have found most Getz barrels need a smaller ball and Rice barrels need a larger ball . My .54 Getz uses a .525. My .40 Rice uses a .395. For off hand shooting.

[bob in the woods]

In my .54 I normally use a .530 for target shooting, but went to a .527 for hunting.  Having to jab my starter against a tree to get the ball started convinced me to get a smaller mold the first time I shot a deer with the .530 and then had to reload.  The .527 was a standard Lee mold, but I'd prefer a .525
I'd rather have a heavier patch and a smaller ball when hunting. 

[smylee grouch]

If the crown of the muzzle is not polished, you might try that before you get another mold.

[longcruise]

Is it only difficult to start or is it hard going all the way down.

[Daryl]

Pat I have found most Getz barrels need a smaller ball and Rice barrels need a larger ball . My .54 Getz uses a .525. My .40 Rice uses a .395. For off hand shooting.

Interesting, I have a .50 Getz barrel and was thinking of trying a .508" ball as the .495" seemed a bit loose with a .022" patch.  I am getting some scorching from the bottom of the grooves, thus proving not getting the seal that I look for.

I am shooting a .350" out of a rice .36 cal. barrel and it's doing OK, however a .360" wold be better.

I used .398" and .400" in a tight, 398" bore Goodoien barrel I had.  Both balls were very accurate, with the .400" being slightly better.

[Daryl]

I think I have an undersized bore on this barrel.
Getting a .490 ball started on a clean barrel can be very difficult.
Trying to load a .490 ball, even after the first shot is way too difficult.
I was going to order a mold for this gun and was wondering if I should go
with .485 or .480?
Did the frontiersmen of yesterday shoot round balls as close to the
barrel diameter as we do today?
Has anyone else here had to make a similar adjustment?

Thanks
Pat Cameron

Best way to find out is to measure it.  If it measures normal, Pat, your crown is probably too sharp.

[Pat_Cameron]

It IS tough to get it started at the crown and I can fix that quick enough but
it is really tough all the way down.
The two choices in my view are thinner patches or smaller diameter ball.
I am going back to the woods in an hour or so as I still have a doe tag to fill.
I will run some patches down the barrel before loading.
I do not currently have a mold and figured on either .485 or .480

Pat

[Smoketown]

Pat,

How thick is your patching material?

I too have a .50 caliber Getz barrel, it's a B weight with a ‘Canadian crown’.   

Using a .490” ball and pillow ticking from the local Amish dry goods store (which is as heavy and tightly woven as the early 70’s vintage T/C patches), I still have to give my short starter a mighty whack to get the ball started.

But once 'past the equator' it goes smoothly down although, not without considerable resistance. 

A .495” ball is almost impossible to load without a hammer and a steel range rod, even with WWF and PURE neatsfoot oil @ 2 oz. per pint.   

Cheers,
Smoketown

[WadePatton]

If I cannot run denim for patching, I use a smaller ball. Daryl teached me that patches need to carry enough lube.  Thin patches cannot. 

[Pat_Cameron]

I have a 50 cal smoothbore barrel that will be made into a
Deer/Squirrel gun.
I am going to measure that bore and will either go with .485 or .480 and
patch accordingly. I can get by this week with what I have. I am loaded for bear(deer)
now and should fill my doe tag with that load.  Then I will order a mold next week.

Pat

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your .50 cal smooth bore will require a smaller ball than the .50 cal rifle...in the smoothie, there are no grooves - places for the patch material to go.  But in both cases, your first task will be to slug the bore and measure the lead slug.  I'd be very surprised if both barrels did not have a .500" bore.  Your rifle will have rifling from .010" - .016".  Once those dimensions are attained, use math to find the correct thickness of patch.  Make sure you have some compression of the material.  That patch has two functions - it must carry enough lubricant to dissolve ALL of the fouling from the previous shot, all the way to the charge, and it must seal the bore so that no gases pass the patched ball before it leaves the bore.   If it does those two things, you will be able to shoot all day without having to wipe the barrel's bore, and you will have excellent accuracy.  If it does not, you will have to wipe frequently in order to load subsequent shots, and it will be difficult to push that patched ball down the barrel.  This is assuming your bore is not damaged by rust from poor cleaning technique.

[Daryl]

I have a 50 cal smoothbore barrel that will be made into a
Deer/Squirrel gun.
I am going to measure that bore and will either go with .485 or .480 and
patch accordingly. I can get by this week with what I have. I am loaded for bear(deer)
now and should fill my doe tag with that load.  Then I will order a mold next week.

Pat

In a .50 smoothbore, I would use a .470" ball and a .018" to .020" patch.  Thus, .470+.020+.020=.510" - .500 = .010" ----- thus .005 compression per side.

[awol]

Pat,

I have the same problem with my .50 cal. Getz barreled rifle. At the range I use a steel rod to load a .490 rb, patch about .185. and with a liquid-type patch lube. Very difficult loading with the wooden ramrod, especially with a greasy-type lube, which I prefer for hunting.

A few years back I purchased a mould for .485 dia. rb's. This only helped slightly; it was still a problem re-loading with a wooden ramrod (for hunting). Then I picked up a box of Hornady .480 dia. rb's. I'd forgotten them until I read your post. Just tried them, with the same patching and 50/50 deer tallow/neatsfoot oil lube. Now I can load with the wooden rod, and accuracy seemed OK (though I've not done a lot of testing with the .480's). Makes me want to again use this rifle for hunting.

I suggest getting a box and trying them, before purchasing a mould.

[Pat_Cameron]

Lots of great advice here.
Thanks for taking the time to help out.

Pat

[Daryl]

My Don Getz rifled .50 is 48" long & is mounted on my A. Verner rifle, built by Taylor.  I normally use a steel range rod when on the trail - the barrel is so long, removing and replacing the rod takes too much effort and time.  Also, as the rifle's wiping stick is sooo long - it will difficult to replace if/WHEN I break it and since it is only 1/4" at it's small end- it is rather fragile. I loaded a number of rounds with it, just to make sure it works - it does and works well with my current loading regime.

I am using a .495" dead soft ball (I call that pure lead) with 10 ounce denim - I measure 10 ounce denim at .0225" compressed in my caliper jaws.  Hard compressed in my mic, it runs .020". That load is actually quite easy to load, btw, but it barely makes it to the bottom of the rounded grooves. There are some scorch marks on the patch showing although the numbers say it is sealing with some compression in the bottom of the grooves, it is not doing this. To use even smaller balls and actually thinner patches is going the wrong way- in my opinion.

I measure 12 ounce denim at .030" with calipers and .025" in my micrometer - both heavily compressed. If going to a .490" ball, I am sure I would have to use the thicker denim.

I think a lot of difficult loading is due to powder fouling buildup in the grooves.  With tight combinations, this does not happen - in smooth bores.