How did they do it - entry pipes?

[Jerry V Lape]

Okay, I have reviewed all the archives and the tutorials on pipe making.  I am not asking about the embellishments - just the basic forming of the lifted tail of the entry pipe.  So far it appears I need a milling machine to form a steel mold held in a machine vise.  But the original builders of these pipes certainly made them in some fashion without the milling machine.  So how did they do it?  Or if you are like me with nothing but hand tools, how do you do it?  I need to make simple pipes as similar as can be of an original and have several days of experimentation and tool making which hasn't given me an acceptable entry pipe yet.  I have the upper pipes complete and know how to do that just fine. 

[David Rase]

When I form the step up for the pipe body to the finial, I use a step mandrel.  I built several of these in sizes to fit 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 inch pipes.  If I am making a 3/8" pipe, I take a piece of 1/2" round stock about 6" long and turn down half of it to 3/8" diameter.  I grip the pipe in my vice firmly buy the tab letting the finial overhang the end of the vice jaws.  I lube up the mandrel and drive it through the pipe from the finial end.  I then massage the finial as needed to straighten it out as well as to get it to the correct curve.

If a guy does not have a lathe he could drill a hole in a piece of 1/2" round stock and then braze in a piece of 5/16" round stock.

Note: I always taper the step on my mandrel from the small diameter to the larger diameter.

I have seen forming blocks made out of hardwood but have never used one myself.  These are usually made in 2 pieces, a top and a bottom.  The bottom is rounded out to fit the pipe diameter and then the step (crook as you refer to it) gouged out.  The a top half is made to clamp over the pipe with a slot to accommodate the tab.  These 2 halves are screwed or bolted together and then a round nose punch or a piece of round stock used to form the finial.

[flehto]

For entry  pipes w/ "normal" length finials or the longer Bucks County w/ their much longer finials, I use  the form block as shown below. This form will make either a one or 2 piece entry pipe.  For the entry pipes w/ the shorter finials , I usually make them one piece and for the longer finialed Bucks County entry pipes,  it depends how I feel whether a one or two piece is made.

For the one piece I just use a radiused punch to form the "drop off" and the male form block for the rest of the finial. The radiused punch also forms the finial of a two piece pipe.

The two piece pipes are joined w/ high temp silver solder.

Have made quite a few entry pipes using this form.....Fred

 

[wmrike]

Like Flehto - but what are the screws for?

[Jerry V Lape]

Thank you for the reinforcement.  I have made three wooden blocks per Fletho's photos but haven't produced a decent product yet.  I shall try that method a few more times.  I also tried the mandrel method.  Now I suppose the problem is just my skill in using these tools which means more practice.  Good thing I have a supply of brass sheet on hand.  Thank you again.   

[Rolf]

I've used the wooden block metode for all my entry pipes, with good results. Whats important is to have a radius (curved) corner on the flat brass blank, where the tail meets the pipe. That makes it easier to bump up the tail. A sharp 90 degree forces more metal to strech.






Best regards

Rolf

[flehto]

The 2 screws hold the pipe's "wings" down. Or  pins could be used which makes it more difficult to remove the pipe. Screws are HC and I prefer to remove the entry pipe once in awhile.

Everyone knows that the brass has to be annealed and the peened areas at the juncture pf the pipe and finial require addt'l  annealings....Fred

[David Rase]

Here is how I figure out the step for my mandrels.

The step is based on how thick you want the bottom of your forestock.  I normally like a 1/8" thickness of wood under my ramrod.  With that said, if my web is 1/8" and my material thickness is .040", then I would need a .085" step.  With that said, my two diameters would be .312 (5/16")for the pipe and .482 (approximately 31/64"). 

Here is how I come up with the above dimensions.  Take the thickness of the step you want, multiply by 2, (.125 x 2 = .250) then double your material thickness,(.040 x 2 =.080).  Now subtract material thickness from wood thickness (.250 - .080 = .170)   Now add .170 to your ramrod diameter (.170 + .312 = .482)  Your small mandrel should be .312 and the large diameter should be .482.

Hopefully I have not confused you too much.
David

[pushboater]

I got the impression that The screws WMRIKE was asking about we're the screws in the end of the wooden forms in the first photo that Flehto posted. I may be wrong though.

David

[flehto]

The wood screws in the form block are to hold an added length and are unnecessary now because of the glue. Just didn't remove the screws......Fred 

[SingleMalt]

Hopefully I have not confused you too much.
David

You made me with I'd paid more attention in math class!   

[Long John]

I use a wooden form similar to Fred's.  Mine is not quite as refined as his and, consequently, neither are my rifles.  Hmmmmmmm.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[WKevinD]

I use the steel mandrel version but not having a lathe I drilled a 3/8" hole in a piece of 5/8" stock leaving an 1/8" step with a radius edge. I roughed the insert end of the 3/8" rod and hammered it home.
Like Fred says
" brass has to be annealed and the peened areas at the juncture pf the pipe and finial require addt'l  annealings..."
Kevin

[JCKelly]

Half a lifetime ago when I made my entry thimbles I followed what Buchele wrote. About what is on this thread.
No bloody milling machine is required.

[deepcreekdale]

I am with burnt and JC Kelly here. Back the 1970,s I took two 3 inch long pieces of 3/4 inch round mild steel, in one I drilled a 3/8 inch hole in one, a 5/16 hole in the other. The edge of both holes were about 1/8th of an inch from the edge of the 3/4 rod. I radiused the larger rod down to the edge of the hole, then silver soldered a piece of rod of the appropriate size into the hole. I have made dozens of entry thimbles since then depending on the size required and use the same fixtures I made back then, today. Just remember to keep your brass annealed while forming and with a little practice and some judicious hammering and filing, they will turn out fine. I think it helps if you try to think like the original makers did. I imagine they probably forged something out on the anvil in a few minutes when they were apprenticing, and used the same fixture their entire career.