Improving Efficiency

[thecapgunkid]

MIke's reply gets posted in my shop...maybe like a mural.  Every goof I have ever made is in there somewhere as well as everything I can be proud of.  The only thing I would add is...you can't get enough advice, technique tips to choose from, videos, books, sources and...other people.

Oh, yeah, patience helps

[Dennis Glazener]

The best pros out there have the ability to shape wood and metal equally and do it in a workman like manor. Some folks have what it takes and some don't and never will.
  And that's all I have to say about that.

I agree with what Mike has to say about building but I would add this:
One of the big problems many people have is believing that they can do a particular job. Some just sit there intimidated and are afraid to try anything that they are unfamiliar with. They have a defeated attitude so they will never even try to do something different.

My dad used to have a saying that went like this, "can't" never did anything because he didn't try!
Dennis
 

[oldtravler61]

  Well said Mike... Last thing I have to say is how you handle a mistake. When you run into it. Dwelling on how it happened will really slow you down. Fix it an move on. Trust me there will be more. It's all how you handle the it. Which intern will move the project along.

[Joe S.]

being realistic, able to handle failure,mistakes, constructive criticism and know your limitations.It ain't rocket science, have at it and have fun doing it,if it a chore, burden,find another profession/hobie.Spot on Mike by the way.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

This has been an interesting thread.  I have been soul searching a little recently about building.  What happened was projects bottle necked in my shop and I had three projects and different stages of completion.  It created a nightmare as I started to hurry and try and cut corners to save time and money.  IT NEVER WORKED.  My biggest problem is I have what I call project ADHD.  My mind is moving on to other projects while I am working on another.  I have learned that I cannot act on those impulses. 

Being efficient and being fast are two different things.  When what may seem a simple task turns into something more it drag down the process and be discouraging.  The project I have had the most problem with recently was a nose cap.  Just a nose cap.  I was trying to use it to cover a little gap, and for a nose cap.  I think in trying to rush or getting frustrated I removed too much wood.  It made hammering the rivet difficult and tricky. 

I really don't have anything to add. 

Cory Joe Stewart

[Mike Brooks]

I might add. Not everyone is cut out to be a gunbuilder and that's OK. I can't work on cars and find that annoying as $#*!. I also don't understand electricity or ham radio stuff, also annoying as $#*!. But that's OK too, as there are people out there that understand that stuff and I can pay them to do those things for me.

[David Rase]

I could increase my efficiency by not reading or posingt on the ALR so much.   
David 

[jerrywh]

David Race. Amen to that but I feel sorry for the new guys.

[WadePatton]

I might add. Not everyone is cut out to be a gunbuilder and that's OK. I can't work on cars and find that annoying as $#*!. I also don't understand electricity or ham radio stuff, also annoying as $#*!. But that's OK too, as there are people out there that understand that stuff and I can pay them to do those things for me.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I DON'T WANT to work on the truck any more (34 years later), but can't afford to hire it done.  Also, been a ham since 1996 and did the complete wiring of my shop in a few years ago.  I learn too much about too much too often, but when I get focused or organized...oh look out!  Gunbuilding is where I smash my metalworking and woodworking pursuits together.  Someday I hope to make enough to hire my oil changed-or to buy an antenna rather than making another one.

What comes of it, we shall all see.

[TMerkley]

I might add. Not everyone is cut out to be a gunbuilder and that's OK. I can't work on cars and find that annoying as $#*!. I also don't understand electricity or ham radio stuff, also annoying as $#*!. But that's OK too, as there are people out there that understand that stuff and I can pay them to do those things for me.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I DON'T WANT to work on the truck any more (34 years later), but can't afford to hire it done.  Also, been a ham since 1996 and did the complete wiring of my shop in a few years ago.  I learn too much about too much too often, but when I get focused or organized...oh look out!  Gunbuilding is where I smash my metalworking and woodworking pursuits together.  Someday I hope to make enough to hire my oil changed-or to buy an antenna rather than making another one.

What comes of it, we shall all see.

Someday I hope to make enough to hire my oil changed-or to buy an antenna rather than making another one.

Wade,
This is known in the OLD ARMY as "Field Craft".  Nowadays, they just throw money at the problem....

[Mike Brooks]

I might add. Not everyone is cut out to be a gunbuilder and that's OK. I can't work on cars and find that annoying as $#*!. I also don't understand electricity or ham radio stuff, also annoying as $#*!. But that's OK too, as there are people out there that understand that stuff and I can pay them to do those things for me.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I DON'T WANT to work on the truck any more (34 years later), but can't afford to hire it done.  Also, been a ham since 1996 and did the complete wiring of my shop in a few years ago.  I learn too much about too much too often, but when I get focused or organized...oh look out!  Gunbuilding is where I smash my metalworking and woodworking pursuits together.  Someday I hope to make enough to hire my oil changed-or to buy an antenna rather than making another one.

What comes of it, we shall all see.

Well don't figure you'll get rich building guns. I just bought a new truck...well new to me anyway. '89 Ford F150 4X4 with the old 300 straight six and a manual 5 speed. Rusted out, beat up ,28 years old and 162,000 miles. That's what you call living high on the hog.....

[WadePatton]

My truck has 350,000 miles on it. I don't want another one but would like to fix the ball joints and some rust holes... and the block heater and the oil cooler gasket (have parts) and the rear axle swap (have axle), plus the manual front axle disconnect it needs for predictable 4x4 engagement.  And some little stuff, lotta little stuff.  I aligned it last with a string.

Anyone who thinks riches can be found in any one-man shop making anything probably doesn't have much life experience. I stopped pursuing money when I got the last degree-and decided that wasn't a good field for me.  But i'm gettin' a little hongry. 

And folks unsolicited have begun to inquire as to my makings...

[Bob Roller]

I might add. Not everyone is cut out to be a gunbuilder and that's OK. I can't work on cars and find that annoying as $#*!. I also don't understand electricity or ham radio stuff, also annoying as $#*!. But that's OK too, as there are people out there that understand that stuff and I can pay them to do those things for me.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I DON'T WANT to work on the truck any more (34 years later), but can't afford to hire it done.  Also, been a ham since 1996 and did the complete wiring of my shop in a few years ago.  I learn too much about too much too often, but when I get focused or organized...oh look out!  Gunbuilding is where I smash my metalworking and woodworking pursuits together.  Someday I hope to make enough to hire my oil changed-or to buy an antenna rather than making another one.

What comes of it, we shall all see.

Well don't figure you'll get rich building guns. I just bought a new truck...well new to me anyway. '89 Ford F150 4X4 with the old 300 straight six and a manual 5 speed. Rusted out, beat up ,28 years old and 162,000 miles. That's what you call living high on the hog.....

Until I was about 65,I enjoyed working on cars.These were high end European or Euroklunkers as I called them. They are the reason we have owned 7 Lincolns
in nearly 48 years.Our current Town Car gets 3000 mile oil changes at Jiffy Lube and at 179,000 runs like a Swiss watch. MAYBE we will spring for ONE more but at nearly 81 and 74 we aren't looking very hard. Four or five locks a month will keep me as busy as I want. No more cars. A well off doctor in the Mid West asked me to come out and pull the head off his 1930 Duesenberg and install new valves (32) and the reset the clearances and I turned him down and that was
a good money job.We are not in debt and I paid a card $69.73 last week for flat ground LC to make triggers from. Current project is 5 locks,English 4 screw types for Rigby (2) and Alex Henry (3).Labor intensive things but it beats watching TV which we both have lost interest in and a sense of accomplishment when they are done and ready to ship.

Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

My truck has 350,000 miles on it. I don't want another one but would like to fix the ball joints and some rust holes... and the block heater and the oil cooler gasket (have parts) and the rear axle swap (have axle), plus the manual front axle disconnect it needs for predictable 4x4 engagement.  And some little stuff, lotta little stuff.  I aligned it last with a string.

Anyone who thinks riches can be found in any one-man shop making anything probably doesn't have much life experience. I stopped pursuing money when I got the last degree-and decided that wasn't a good field for me.  But i'm gettin' a little hongry. 

And folks unsolicited have begun to inquire as to my makings...

If you ever go to building guns full time and are successful you'll not have time to dink around fixing old trucks. You'll have to figure out how much money you could make in your shop vs how much a real mechanic would fix your truck for. If your shop labor is figured properly there is no way you could afford to work on your own truck.

[jerrywh]

 I.m 80 and was a mechanic for 45 years. I always built guns, made springs or gun parts on the side since I was 16 years old.  If I was able to fix my truck I probably would because I am too cheap to pay someone else who probably doesn't know as much about it. But I can make a lot better money engraving in a nice warm clean room. I have laid under my last transmission with fluid running down my neck and up my pant legs in the cold for $175.00 a week. I have painted my last car and built my last custom T-bird. I should have been Engraving 40 years ago. I made as much money on one gun as I did working on cars for 10 years and it was a lot more fun.
 I have no illusions of getting rich and if I won the lotto I don't know what I would do with the money. I would probably give most of it away. I love what I do and do it when I want.
  Bob Roller and I sound like twins.  PS. I love them old lincolns. That 460 motor was a jewel. Those were cruisers. My buddies use to say I drove an aircraft carrier.  I had a 58 Lincoln 4dr with suicide doors. It had a 430 cu in. Those ere the days.

[WadePatton]

My truck has 350,000 miles on it. I don't want another one but would like to fix the ball joints and some rust holes... and the block heater and the oil cooler gasket (have parts) and the rear axle swap (have axle), plus the manual front axle disconnect it needs for predictable 4x4 engagement.  And some little stuff, lotta little stuff.  I aligned it last with a string.

Anyone who thinks riches can be found in any one-man shop making anything probably doesn't have much life experience. I stopped pursuing money when I got the last degree-and decided that wasn't a good field for me.  But i'm gettin' a little hongry. 

And folks unsolicited have begun to inquire as to my makings...

If you ever go to building guns full time and are successful you'll not have time to dink around fixing old trucks. You'll have to figure out how much money you could make in your shop vs how much a real mechanic would fix your truck for. If your shop labor is figured properly there is no way you could afford to work on your own truck.

agreed completely.

I've got to quit doing everything
and start doing "one" thing

-to a level unachieved by most, but clearly attainable by motivated individuals with some degree of focus.

[JCKelly]

Made a few rifles in the 1970's, when the working man could still afford one. Never ever got close to the level of perfection I see on this site. Just made stuff that looked like old rifles did when they were new. For the first few, each time I picked up a tool I had to think about what I was going to do. Then one day my hands seemed to know what to do & my build time dropped by about 1/3. Power tools were a bandsaw and electric drill on a drill stand. Preferred & prefer hand tools.
Jerry Kirklin, Birmingham, Michigan got laid off Chrysler in the early 1970's. Started making guns, perfect workmanship. Was offered his old job back & politely declined. Liked being able to finish what he started. He's retired several years now, moved back to Indiana. He'd be a good guy to ask about gunbuilding for a living from the last quarter of the 20th century through the first few years of this one. Larry Mrock, Michigan, was a technician at an jet engine company, wife, two sons. Planned his career change, excellent promoter. I think his first break came from making a Haga replica for the Early American Society, for the Pennsylvania revolutionary bicentennial. Moved to New England, believe he went into restoration of high grade Kentucky rifles. Also, I strongly suspect, retired. In the '70's as I recall his power tools were a bandsaw, probably a drill press, & a router,or something to rout out straight 7/8" barrel channels. Before he went to swamped barrels from Paris and/or Getz. 
The working guy has no "disposable income" now, compared to 40 years ago. Bet it is much tougher to get started now, yeah going for the millionaire customers makes a lot of sense. The working guy buys Pedersoli or similar.
Bob Roller I thought you were older than I!

[TMerkley]

Legends never die!!!!!

[Nordnecker]

This is a good thread. I've read over it a few times. I'm too tired to work on anything right now.
People tell me all the time. "You should build (whatever I just built) these and sell them to people. You could make good money." Even though I appreciate what they're saying, I don't see it that way. I built this ( rifle, boat, guitar, piece of furniture, etc.) because I wanted to. It was a challenge in some way or another. I did it to satisfy myself, To see if I could do it. When I have to work for someone else, I second guess what "they" might want.
They see  a finished product and they hear a figure. Well that figure represents what I think it might be resonably worth. It doesn't include the hours and hours I might have spent researching or staring at it or laying awake at night thinking about it.
It took me about 90 hrs to build my last rifle. This included screwing up a ram rod hole and starting with a new stock blank. I probably spent 40 hrs just making the patch box. I spent a couple of days just fiddling around with the lock trying to get it to work like I wanted. I don't include the time I spent on the lock. I probably made 3 muzzle caps, 4 rear sights, plus underlugs , thimbles, shaping screw heads, etc just to get ones I was satisfied with.
So my $3500 rifle is really "worth" $6000 to me. If I could get that $$$ it would be worth it but I know there are many builders of (whatever) who can do a better job and charge less than I would. So these pursuits remain a hobby of mine.
 On the other hand, I am a carpenter by trade. I build mantels and staircases and handrails and bookshelves and cabinets for people all the time. I remodel bathrooms and kitchens, build mortise and tennon doors, repair rotten windows and shutters and such. I can work efficiently on these things. My customers have told they they thought my bill should be higher. There's nothing worse than handing somebody a bill and their responce is, "That's all?" Even though I can't think of a way to charge them more. I have been given a few tip$ over the years.
So I think I'm better off doing what I do well and paying the auto mechanic or plumber to do what he does well. I hate turning a wrench.

I don't run across many $500 million a year people. I haven't had the chance to work for one of them. Oddly enough, most of the "rich" customer's I've had have been the worst to get money out of. I guess it's just inconceivable to them that someone like me actually needs money.

[bob in the woods]

Knowing exactly what you're trying to accomplish with any given task is extremely important. Having that mind's eye vision of the finished product helps move things along. The biggest help for me is laying everything out on paper first. That lets me proceed with confidence, and certainly lends to efficiency.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree with you Bob.  I start almost every gun with a drawing, having studied reference material over and over.  Then I can set chisel and saw to wood and make chips fly.  The first wood that comes off a stock blank I save for kindling - it's that big. 
One big factor that may interfere with some builders being efficient, is not being able to devote sequential time to a build.  Having to come back days or weeks later may force the builder to basically start all over, planning and gaining the confidence to go again.  A rhythm will make your work more efficient, but that may be a luxury few have. 

[James Rogers]

.....
One big factor that may interfere with some builders being efficient, is not being able to devote sequential time to a build.  Having to come back days or weeks later may force the builder to basically start all over, planning and gaining the confidence to go again.  A rhythm will make your work more efficient, but that may be a luxury few have.

Boy, have I experienced this more than once!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You disguise it well James.

[WadePatton]

This is a good thread. I've read over it a few times. I'm too tired to work on anything right now.
..."rich" customer's I've had have been the worst to get money out of. I guess it's just inconceivable to them that someone like me actually needs money.

Sounds like you're my brother-older or at least more advanced.  Boats are next on my list, Bikes I've done and may do again.  But then I've a cabin to build right after I set up offgrid electricity and water systems-and move.