scraper vs. paper

[Joe S.]

Been wondering this for sometime.I know the value and quality of finish of wood worked over by scraping vs.sand paper.I have scraped larger flat areas of wood like table tops ect. but when it comes to small areas,radiuses,ect.found on long rifles I find it difficult to get the desired effect.From past posts most make custom scrapers for these areas.Did you folks do this from the beginning, first couple rifles or did you work up to it using paper at first,combination or just a lot of practice on scrap to get the technique down.

[Mike Brooks]

It's been a combination of paper and scrapers for me. I start out scraping and drift into paper saves me alot of time. I'll be interested to hear others experience.

[Nordnecker]

Very timely post. I went through this today. One side of the stock was fine with spokeshave and scraper. The other side would NOT let me use either tool to good effect. I had to rasp very carefully and use abrasive to get where I wanted. I really didn't want to go that route. I wondered what the old time stocker would have done.

[davebozell]

I've been working on a walnut stock shown in another post.  I've been rasping and scraping with card scrapers.  The other day I picked up a utility knife blade just for kicks.  I used it like a scraper, and it worked like a dream on the convex side of the stock.  I'll have to find some smaller blades for the other side.

[Mark Elliott]

I mostly scrape,  but if you want a completely smooth finish,  there are going to be some areas that must be sand papered.  I have lots of different scrapers and even scrape my carving some to even out the modeling cuts.   The thing I like about scraping is that you can use the same tool to shape and finish and the results is frequently as good as very fine grit sandpaper.  I mainly just find scraping quicker.

[ron w]

that's the nature of using a thicker piece of wood. one side is basically plain sawn and scrapes real nice, while the other side is to some extent end grain or almost end grain and scrapes poorly. the quality (read price you paid) of blank will exhibit these two characteristics to varying degree, depending on how close to t he pith of the tree the blank was located. part of paying a premium price for a good blank is in the fact that the blank was located in the tree acut to make the best of this specific issue. price doesn't only concern how fancy the blank is, it also concerns the workability of the blank. the outer third of a tree will contain the most workable blanks because the growth rings are larger in diameter and easier to get good wood from. this bears fact in that the really fancy stuff with really wild grain and figure will show up in the more central parts of the trunk and will also exhibit the chipping and splintering that is notorious for that kind of wood.

[smart dog]

Hi Joe,
Much depends on my objectives.  My first guns were planed, rasped, filed, then scraped in spots with broken glass, and then final sanded. They all came out with very smooth finishes.  It did not take me very much time to figure out how to scrape effectively and efficiently, but then I had my dad teaching me.  Today, I decide what my objective is for the final appearance and work accordingly.  If I am using curly maple and want a classic textured scraped look, I don't use sandpaper, just rasps, files, and scrapers. I want a glassy smooth surface, I rasp, file, use sandpaper to 320 grit, and lightly scrape for the final finish. Scraping cuts the wood fiber whereas sandpaper often just mashes it down.  You often have to whisker a stock more if just sanded rather than scraped when intending to use water-based stains.  For scraping, I use rectangular and French curve scrapers, a carving knife, and my favorite chip carving skew chisel.  That last tool has cutting edges on 3 sides of the skewed rectangular blade and it is ideal for scraping around details.

dave

[Boompa]

   I'm no pro so I don't mean to give advice. I use both but mostly scrapers. I have a small box full of scrapers of all shapes, a few I bought 20+ years ago from Brownell's but most I made from scrap. I normally use paper for a final finish. For me, I find scrapers to be more precise when removing wood in small tight areas. I also find that large scrapers remove wood much faster in open areas. I use them for inletting as well as shaping and cleaning up carved areas. 

[jerrywh]

 I scraped 1 gun about 50 years ago and used broken glass. It came out great and hardly had any ripples in it.  I sold it to a cancer surgeon in Portland Oregon. He came in my place of business 36 years later and still had it. He was over 90 years old when he came in my place of business and driving his own car.

[Long John]

I mostly scrape.  I make my own custom-shaped scrapers for the small, curvy spots, cleaning up carving backgrounds, etc.  In a few minutes I can take some 1095 steel, file it to the profile I need, harden it, temper it, and polish the edge.  Now I have a tool I can use when-ever I need that edge.  Over the years I have accumulated about a dozen, one I made from an old saber-saw blade almost 15 years ago.  It still works!

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[B Shipman]

I like crisp. And you can't do it with sandpaper. And you can't get a really good finish with scrapers. Actually you can but it seems to be beyond my skill level. Especially with the finish I use which will highlight a scratch. My "sanding" begins with 320, maybe 220 and ends with 400.

[smallpatch]

I use mostly scrapers.  Thicker ones for final shaping, thinner for rough finish work, razor blades for final finish.  The harder the wood, the better the final result.  I think scraping gives a warmer, more alive final result.  Also takes stain better. 
I only use paper as a last resort.  Some times ya gotta!

[TMerkley]

In some cases, I use a hacksaw for a scraper for some areas where I may not have the right type of rasp and it won't allow me to take too much off. Then I touch up with a mill file or scrape.

[Brent English]

Personally I really like scraped finishes.  Heavily scraped in fact, so that you can feel the curl.  That said, I also do a lot of woodturning.  Woodturners have a saying about sandpaper:  "Use it like somebody else is buying it."  If you think it's "mashing" the grain as one of the previous posters mentioned, throw it away and get a fresh piece.  Also there is so much quality sand paper around these days, like Abranet or Mirka Gold (my favorite), that lasts a long time and really cuts fast and clean.  If you're still using aluminum oxide or heaven forbid, flint paper.  Time to try something new.  You'll be amazed.

[Turtle]

 I have run into sections of the stock that just won't scrape well-I get a ragged finish, the rest of the stock works fine. Suggestions?
                                                    Thanks, Turtle

[WadePatton]

I have run into sections of the stock that just won't scrape well-I get a ragged finish, the rest of the stock works fine. Suggestions?
                                                    Thanks, Turtle

This puzzles me because my furniture-making guru just showed me how to use a cabinet scraper to smooth over grain that tears out under a plane. 

Are you turning a proper burr on your scrapers?  I only ask because I was scraping long before I learned how to make a scraper properly sharp.

[Turtle]

   I think I'm sharpening them right, but sure an't no expert. Holding the scraper at an angle helps, but then I have trouble getting the contour I want. I have been resorting to sandpaper for those areas.
                                                Turtle

[Brent English]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but scraping always works better for me when I'm going "down hill" with how the wood fibers lay.  This is not the same as going across the grain.  Think of the individual fibers coming up to the surface of your work like hairs on a dog.  It's easier to pet when you go with the grain and from front to back - that's down hill and with the grain.  If you pet the dog from back to front, you're still with the grain, but going up hill.  That results in fiber pull out with the wood and a rough scrape.   Areas around the cheek piece, lock mortise and entry thimble have a lot of down hill/up hill grain.

[WadePatton]

   I think I'm sharpening them right, but sure an't no expert. Holding the scraper at an angle helps, but then I have trouble getting the contour I want. I have been resorting to sandpaper for those areas.
                                                Turtle

I found out that less is more by watching the 'Tube.  That a small strong burr is better than a great fragile burr.

The actual turning of such is going to be a bit dependent on exactly what steel you're using (composition and treatment), so play with that.  Also, flexing the scraper changes things.  If you're pushing nice curls on fair grain and the edge holds up a while, then you've got it.

I want to try the store-bought jobbies, but have only played with homespun, from banding straps mostly. 


It is rare now that I use anything lower than 220 paper and go up from there if desired.

[TMerkley]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but scraping always works better for me when I'm going "down hill" with how the wood fibers lay.  This is not the same as going across the grain.  Think of the individual fibers coming up to the surface of your work like hairs on a dog.  It's easier to pet when you go with the grain and from front to back - that's down hill and with the grain.  If you pet the dog from back to front, you're still with the grain, but going up hill.  That results in fiber pull out with the wood and a rough scrape.   Areas around the cheek piece, lock mortise and entry thimble have a lot of down hill/up hill grain.

What he said!!!

[boman]

 Dang didn't realize its been so long since i posted on this site. Had to reregister   I have very seldonm used scrapers. I'm basically a bandsaw, rasp/file sandpaper  sort of guy.  This has more to do with how i learned to finish modern gunstocks than anything else.  i can certainly see the merits of scraping and have used it to thin and taper ramrods. just never felt the need to use it on a stock.

Steve

[Joe S.]

Steve,I think that's the thing with me,being used to the finish and look,feel on modern guns.

[gumboman]

 

Also there is so much quality sand paper around these days, like Abranet or Mirka Gold (my favorite), that lasts a long time and really cuts fast and clean.  If you're still using aluminum oxide or heaven forbid, flint paper.  Time to try something new.  You'll be amazed.

The Mirka Gold sandpaper was unknown to me until reading this thread. I found it very interesting and investigated. In looking at the Mirka web site I find that it is made from "ALUMINUM OXIDE". How is it different from aluminum oxide I buy from Home Depot?

[Brent English]

The Mirka Gold sandpaper was unknown to me until reading this thread. I found it very interesting and investigated. In looking at the Mirka web site I find that it is made from "ALUMINUM OXIDE". How is it different from aluminum oxide I buy from Home Depot?
[/quote]

It's coated. I'm no chemist, but here is additional info from the page on their website where it calls out aluminum oxide:  "Gold features semi-open and special stearate coatings designed to prevent clogging and pill forming which helps achieve an optimal sanding result".

Hey, I got no dog in this hunt.  Just saying it works really good, and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you tried it or the Abranet I also mentioned.  To me, it's one of those things that you use so little of it's worth spending the extra money. 

The Abranet can also be purchased on a screen (like drywall sanding pads) so you can use both sides.  Very flexible backings on either one too, not just paper.  Gives you more options to fold it and shape it to fit contours.