Schimmel Rifle

[Mike Brooks]

I give up......

[bob in the woods]

The wood as is . That's all you need. Add a dowel or a steel insert and the expansion ratios will bite you in the long run. Leather gets wet and retains moisture.....is that a good thing ??    Seems like a bunch of solutions for a problem that doesn't exist . That's my 2 cents.

[James Rogers]

I put a leather butt plate on the one below. I was working with the owner's precarve. If I ever take a notion to do another without a metal plate I will do it like the one in the last picture Mike Brooks showed.  That rounded shape is key and that particular stock is appealing to me. I have seen leather plates on originals but they were later, southern types and only the end grain had it tacked on. Why, I don't know.

[Kermit]

I always put the gun butt on my foot while loading, didn't want to scratch the buttplate.

This why God gave us feet instead of hooves.

[AMartin]

Of all the guns I ever built (well over 300) the only one I remember repairing was a iron mounted Lancaster ...with buttplate.
The owner slipped and brought the rifle down on a rock ... If it didn't have a buttplate it would have been fine !!

Slab sawn wood is the secret as the grain runs up and down .. and makes for a stronger toe area . Not to mention the wrist ..

Al

[thecapgunkid]

Flinster I believe I will try this on an old stock and then the new one

Just go slow.  It is a touchy feely thing and you can afford some of the Material you use between the leather and the wood to be finicky. 

I forgot to mention that something like contact cement will bind hard if both parts dry first, whereas it will almost always come loose if the parts are joined when it is wet.

Foil will also work and, when re-applied, the contact cement re-generates it's glue qualities.  If the material doesn't come off, a scraper will get it so.

[n stephenson]

Flintster,

I'm going to agree with Dave.  I end up with too much invested in a rifle by the time I am finished building it not to put both a butt plate and toe plate on it.  I, too, have repaired a number of guns that "didn't need no stinking butt plate"; at least until they did.  We can all come up with anecdotes to support one opinion versus another but if you want your rifle to have the maximum probability of lasting, I would give it a butt plate and toe plate.

I would NOT use a steel fastener to travers vertically a large fraction of the butt.  Wood expands and contracts with the weather and the seasons.  If you let the wood do its thing it will last.  But a steel fastener or a wooden dowel running vertically up the majority of the butt will prevent the annual expansion and contraction and set the stage for a serious check that will widen over time.  I made that mistake, once.  There is a crack in the butt stock you can stick a match-stick through after 20 years.  Not good!

Best Regards,

John Cholin

The method that I posted DOES work I`ve used it personally on three guns and seen it used on three others by two other gunsmiths and, it worked everytime. It`s a method that works and it`s there if you want it and there if you don`t. I respect other people`s opinions but I don`t let them dictate the way I build my guns. Just because you`ve had a bad experience with a method doesn't mean that the method is faulty , you just might not be doing it right.                                            Nathan

[sqrldog]

William Ivey has a picture of a NC rifle (#194) that has no buttplate and has a nail driven into the  heel of the butt as described by HH. Ivey attributes the rifle to the late eighteenth century. After all the years and service this rifle has seen it is still intact in the butt stock. I have seen rifles with buttplates season crack and chip in the toe area after being dropped or because the stockwood simply dried and checked. I think the survival of a rifle without a buttplate has a lot to do with the wood and the grain direction in the buttstock. My preference is to have a buttplate but I see a rifle built without one somewhere in my future.  Tim

[oldtravler61]

  Have a little 36 cal that I have owened for 40 years. No butt plate. Still going good. Could part of it be how the gun was taken care of by it's owner.   Mike

[Mike Brooks]

It's the guns with buttplates I see with broken toes. They always seem to break where the lower buttplate screw is....ain't that a quinky dink....

[DBoone]

I agree with Mike Brooks and Allen Martin on no butt plates.  Of all the original rifles I've restored over the years it was the ones with butt plates that had the damage.  Many had broken toes because of the lower screw in the butt plate and toe plate screws, all working together to weaken that area. I don't remember a single "no butt plate gun" that ever had any real damage other than normal wear.....the same kind of wear that you would get over time on the legs of an old ladder back chair.

A crack developing in the butt to me signifies....most of the time... that the stock was not completely dry and/or completely sealed when the gun was built.  I've seen the same "checks" on guns with butt plates.  Come on now.....stocks are made from "wood"....

I know that today our guns constitute a major investment for all of us and most fellows tend to "baby" their guns and not really use them as men used guns 200 years ago.   So it gets a ding or a little crack somewhere. So what....it's a tool.  The gun still functions.  I bet guys today don't take that much care of their claw hammers.

I'm currently putting parts together for a no butt plate", .50 or .54 smooth rifle in a slab-sawn piece of walnut for myself.  Gonna be a plain-Jane.... 

I think a well-made gun with good lines that shows honest use, possibly a crack or two, even some damage and repair... is beautiful....but that's just my humble opinion.

[galudwig]

I think a well-made gun with good lines that shows honest use, possibly a crack or two, even some damage and repair... is beautiful....but that's just my humble opinion.

I second that! With the end grain being exposed, the butt at least has a chance to dry out when exposed to moisture. Cover it with a piece of leather? Might as well attach a sponge. I don't think you can ever really render a piece of leather "waterproof."

Shape it, finish it, shoot it...