Unexpected fouling

[frogwalking]

I have made a number of .40 caliber rifles using Rice barrels.  They have all been ultimately given to my children and grandchildren.  I shot all of them, sighting them in before gifting them, except the last one.  I usually load with a .395 Hornady swaged lead ball and spit lubricated .016 pillow ticking from TOW.  two rifles ago, I changed to a .390 ball, using both a .016 and .020 patch, both with acceptable results.  Of course, the thinner patch loaded more easily.  No fouling issues with either load.  The last rifle, using a .016 patch, .390 ball, it fouled too much to load with reasonable effort after about 3 shots.  I cleaned, went to the thicker patch, with no better results.  The muzzle is also sharp and cutting the patches, so Daryl's observation regarding factory crowning proves true for this barrel. although I have not noticed an issue on a Rice barrel before.  Note:  new barrel with no rust.

The next time I travel to my daughter's farm, I will smooth the muzzle, but what gives on the fouling?  Same Goex 3fg powder, same Hornady swaged balls, same pillow ticking.  How do I fix this?  Would scrubbing the barrel with scotchbrite help?  If so, what color do I use?

[L. Akers]

My guess would be a combination of temperature and humidity.  I've had days where I could shoot all day without wiping and others (same rifle and everything) where I had to wipe after every shot or I could hardly get the next ball down.  I have also noticed that some days fouling will build up at the breech, and another day it will build up 12" forward of the breech or maybe 3" back of the muzzle.  The only difference is the weather conditions.

[smylee grouch]

I had one rifle that was tearing up the patches and fouling some what. Tried many different combo's and finally found that the little nub on the short starter was too big across and was tearing or streching the patch material when I loaded and when fired the compromised patches were allowing some blow by and torn patches. I turned the nub down and it fixed the problem.

[frogwalking]

The weather was cooler and more humid than I remember shooting the other rifles. 

[Don Steele]

Small changes in your rate of fire will result in feeling more or less resistance when loading.
I can't quantify it for you because the phenomenon is also dependent upon all the usual actors in a load combination.
When I'm at the range alone, the pace of shooting my flintlock rifle is sufficiently rapid that the barrel will sometimes become noticeably warm to the touch. On those days there's NO perceptible change in loading resistance between shots 1-2 or shots 30-31.
When we have a crowd and I get distracted chatting with other folks....a significant amount of time may pass between shots. When that happens, I've found a marked increase in resistance to loading another round even though my combination (powder,ball,patch, etc.) has not changed.
 

[Smoketown]

My guess would be a combination of temperature and humidity.  I've had days where I could shoot all day without wiping and others (same rifle and everything) where I had to wipe after every shot or I could hardly get the next ball down.  I have also noticed that some days fouling will build up at the breech, and another day it will build up 12" forward of the breech or maybe 3" back of the muzzle.  The only difference is the weather conditions.

Build-up at the breech and muzzle for me too.

Now, if i could just get a correlation between the fouling and the "muck in the pan", Id know how often I'd have to swab ...   

I've been using 2 oz. of PURE neatsfoot oil to 16 oz. of cheap windshield washer fluid (thanks Daryl) and the funny thing is, the last two times out I shot ~50 and ~80 balls without any fuss at all. The pan was dirty/sooty but DRY.   

Cheers,
Smoketown

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If your patch is cut or tearing at the muzzle, it cannot clean the fouling from the bore on its way to the powder -  you will have difficulty loading, because of the build up of fouling.  The muzzle condition and the patch/lube/ball combo are key.

[frogwalking]

Thanks Taylor.  I know the muzzle   is sharp.  I will fix this and we will try again. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Fix only one thing at a time...try it and carry on.

[rsells]

I build more .40's than any cal, and had a similar situation as Smylee Grouch.  In my instance, I made a 5/16 starter for the customer to use with the rifle.  I turned the short nub and the longer starter shaft out of brass rod.  I put a radious on the face of the long shaft of the starter, but for some reason left the edge of the short nub relatively sharp.  I was hitting the patch when first driving the ball into the bore and thinning out the patch.  I put a small radious (like I should have in the beginning) on the end of the nub facing the ball, and the issue went away.  I was chasing my tail with patch thickness, patch lube, and ball diameters without getting any change.  Small details can sometimes drive us crazy trying to understand why our groups are larger than normal.
                                                                                                         Roger Sells

[smylee grouch]

Roger, in my instance the shorty nub was even tight when I withdrew it after seating the gall. That is what gave me a clue as to what my problem was. After turning the short nub down in dia. my patch streching problem was over.

[frogwalking]

Thanks guys.  We were actually using a starter for a .32 caliber rifle, or this could have been an issue.  I have had this happen before.

[Darkhorse]

I built a .40 with a Rice barrel for myself. The first day shooting, the second shot was really difficult to load. The third shot I could hardly get the ball down, luckily I had a stainless steel range rod with me. I tried to clean the barrel and found a really hard crud ring about where ball would be sitting. So, the next shot was still difficult to load even with a clean barrel. I was using a .390 ball and ,018 Pillow Ticking patch, and probably wonder lube. This was about 12 or so years ago.
This was getting old fast. I had a unused bottle of Original LeHigh Valley patch lube. I had never tried the stuff. Just bought it because of all positive things I'd read over the net. So I cleaned the bore again and started using the LHV as a patch lube. No more crud rings. No more hard to seat patch and ball.  WOW. For years that was the only lube I used in the .40 cal.
My first couple of shots were with 2fg. After that all were with 3fg.
I did nothing to smooth things out, I just shot the rifle for hundreds of rounds. After the barrel was well broken in I tried some mink oil and wonder lube and things were back to normal. I still use LHV for field cleaning and shooting, but I won't use it for hunting as it dries out too fast and can cause corrosion where the patch contacts the bore.
When new the entire barrel was too sharp and I'd find patches cut nearly every shot. Not what I was expecting from a premium barrel.

[little joe]

I built a .40 with a Rice barrel for myself. The first day shooting, the second shot was really difficult to load. The third shot I could hardly get the ball down, luckily I had a stainless steel range rod with me. I tried to clean the barrel and found a really hard crud ring about where ball would be sitting. So, the next shot was still difficult to load even with a clean barrel. I was using a .390 ball and ,018 Pillow Ticking patch, and probably wonder lube. This was about 12 or so years ago.
This was getting old fast. I had a unused bottle of Original LeHigh Valley patch lube. I had never tried the stuff. Just bought it because of all positive things I'd read over the net. So I cleaned the bore again and started using the LHV as a patch lube. No more crud rings. No more hard to seat patch and ball.  WOW. For years that was the only lube I used in the .40 cal.
My first couple of shots were with 2fg. After that all were with 3fg.
I did nothing to smooth things out, I just shot the rifle for hundreds of rounds. After the barrel was well broken in I tried some mink oil and wonder lube and things were back to normal. I still use LHV for field cleaning and shooting, but I won't use it for hunting as it dries out too fast and can cause corrosion where the patch contacts the bore.
When new the entire barrel was too sharp and I'd find patches cut nearly every shot. Not what I was expecting from a premium barrel.

So much depends on all the varibles,ballsize, load,  patch thickness, 3f verses 2f, lube and weather conditions. I use no 2f under 50 cal. I have used many Rice bbls. for myself and family and everyone has been totally satisfied. The only lube I use is saliva although I do not shoot any in the cold weather.I believe Jason at Rice recomends a .005 under bore size ball. My .40 cal I use a  .40 ball and.020 patch and 40 grs. 3f . This is for line shooting only and not for hunting.

[smallpatch]

Having build over 60 guns, using premium barrels, (Getz, rice, FCI), I've never found one that cut patches in the rifling.  A sharp crown and an oversized starter can however.  They shoot great from first shot.
Years past, I had a few Colerain barrels that were pretty rough though.

[Marcruger]

Hey Froggy,  Are you getting blow-by past your patches?   When I wasn't getting a good seal, that blow-by was fouling the heck out of my barrel.  Hard to load for sure.  Just a thought.  God Bless,   Marc

[frogwalking]

I have not gotten out to my daughter's farm to pick up the rifle yet, but will let you guys know what I find.  If the barrel is as smooth as is normal, I will try some of the lube.  I think we were using a .390 ball.  I usually use the .395.  That could be it.