Frizzen Spring too strong?

[Bigmon]

Got a gun I am having accuracy issues with, but also this.
The frizzen spring seems way too strong.  I notice it every time I close it.
But today I was shooting it quite a bit and it just smashed up a new good flint.
So maybe I need to do something?
I have heard it only needs tite enough to hold the frizzen closed.
Should I try and thin the spring??
Or reduce the cam on the bottom of the frizzen??
Or maybe a little of both??
Or is there another method??
Thanks

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The frizzen and main springs need to be balanced.  If you have to use a gloved fist to cock your lock, you will need a very stiff frizzen spring.  If your lock has a buggy whip mainspring, your frizzen spring will too be very 'live'. It has little to do with the flint's ability to withstand being smashed.  When the springs are balanced, the lock will function well.

[Blacksmoke]

Bigmon: The rule of thumb according to the late John Bivins is that the poundage to cock the lock should be twice that to push the frizzen open.  In other words, if it takes 10 lbs. to pull to full cock , then it should take only about 5lbs. to open the frizzen.  I have followed tis formula ever since I learned it in John's shop during the 70's and have never had a problem!
  Hugh Toenjes

[Dale Halterman]

What kind of lock is it?

Dale H

[Randall Steffy]

Interesting, Hugh. At what point on the cock and frizzen do you take your weight-of-pull reading? In other words, how far out from the axis of the cock or frizzen do you take your measurement? I like that there is a way to measure "balance."

[Blacksmoke]

Randall: I use a spring loaded weight scale with a hook on it and attach the hook on the top jaw screw of the cock, then pull the scale till the cock is just starting to move off of the forward rest.  Then read the scale at that point because as the cock moves further back towards "full cock" position the tension should be getting weaker instead of stronger.  The tumbler and mainspring configuration should produce this effect through simple physics if the lock was assembled correctly!  However most commercial locks that are on the market today do not meet this criteria.  The ones that do are the ones to take notice of.  As for the frizzen the same principle applies.  I place the hook of the scale on the very top of the frizzen and pull forward till the pan cover is just starting to leave the pan, then read the scale. It should read about 50% of the poundage that the cock was rated at.   Most commercial locks have a frizzen tension that is too weak.  Hence you could be in danger of the frizzen bouncing back and damaging the leading edge of the flint.  Hope that answers your question.   Hugh Toenjes

[Flint62Smoothie]

So ... to achieve that “balance”, how would one lighten a frizzen spring? Thin the spring thickness or width across the spring? At what point would you just focus on the camming tip and not the spring?

... trying to learn from the Masters here ..

[rich pierce]

Not a master but is thin a frizzen spring versus reducing width for 1) appearance and 2) not reduce bearing surface for the frizzen toe. I would only reduce thickness of the upper, working arm. But I seldom find a frizzen spring to be too strong.

[Bigmon]

Sorry I didn't mention.
This is a Large Siler that my Brother purchased a few years ago from TOW.
I been thinking about it, trying to remember if I ever tried doing any tuning of the lock, and I think not.
It is probably about the same as when it cane in the box.
This frizzen spring ir really stiff.  Compared to others it seems allot stiffer.
I have a lock from 25 years ago when I bought it was called a "Davis compitotion Siler"  that spring is allot less, but it doesnt bounce back.
It is lightning fast.
Now I have to say this Siler I'm questioning does not seem all that slow but it is certainly not as fast as the other and that strong frizzen just seems tooo much
Thanks

[Long John]

Bigmon,

I am one of those folks who think modern lock vendors are making their frizzen spring too strong.  On the original guns I have the frizzen spring is just enough to keep from losing the priming, no more, and the guns spark fine.

I love the Siler locks and use the Chambers locks almost exclusively.  I think the frizzen springs are too stiff and I usually lighten the spring and the cam on the frizzen as I am tuning and polishing the lock.  I suspect that lock vendors are trying to make the best locks they can and their measure of quality is how much sparking occurs from the operation of the lock.  To maximize the quantity of sparking you have to release lots of energy and that requires the use stiff springs.   But, a lock that eats flints for lunch will get old real quick no matter how much it sparks.  In my view, the best locks are the ones that shoot reliably over the long term.  I have Chamber's Golden Age locks that will reliably ignite the pan charge without a frizzen spring.  THAT'S A GREAT LOCK!

You can lighten the frizzen pressure by making the fizzen spring a little narrower and by filing down the cam that acts on the frizzen spring.  A little goes a long way so its best to reduce dimensions in very small increments while testing performance between increments.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin