Original Locks

[David R. Pennington]

I have a question for some of you familiar with original guns. Of course all the springs would have to be steel, but on original locks, were the other internals typically made of steel or iron case hardened? So far I have made tumblers etc..,. out of steel and hardened and tempered them. Just curious about how originals were done.

[Hudnut]

A lot would depend on the quality of the lock.

[rich pierce]

My understanding is that steel was only used for springs.  I guess the frizzens would have to be deep case hardened.

[Dan Fruth]

There was a fella here in Ohio who made all his locks using cold roll steel for all the internals, including springs. He would soak the parts in a steel pipe about 8 inches long filled with bone meal and a loose fitting lid in his forge. He had worked up a "soak time" schedule, and afterwards, temper per normal carbon steel. His locks are still in service today. He made percussion locks, but had soak times for frizzens as well. His name was Edson Meyers, and he called his business Deer Creek. Very knowledgable fella. He taught Ken Netting a great deal as well as myself. I think we can learn a great deal from the "old school" gun builders.

[jerrywh]

 Dave.
   I have worked on several French and English as well as American original locks. All the ones I worked on the internals as well as the lock plates and frizzens were made of wrought iron that was case hardened.  Most of the springs were made of crucible steel or blister steel. When the springs were broken you could see the grain in the steel just like wrought iron. I have one broken spring that i cannot see the grain in it. I did get to see an original Joseph Manton double with gravity safety locks. The work was so well polished that I could not determine the metal grade of the parts.

[David R. Pennington]

My lucky day, I happened to run into a lock expert today, Mr. Bob Roller. He suggests most originals probably had iron parts excluding the springs and some of the spring steel was of varying qualities, mostly guess work as he put it.

[David Rase]

My lucky day, I happened to run into a lock expert today, Mr. Bob Roller.

I'd love to just run into Bob Roller sometime, but it probably will not happen since we reside on opposite coasts. 
David

[JCKelly]

Original frizzens would have been wrought iron. The steel face was either forge welded on, as in military guns or the finer sporting weapons. Many had the steel brazed on.

The main reason one would not deep-case wrought iron is one would end up with blisters on the surface, as in blister steel. Wrought iron contains slag with some amount of iron oxide. During carburizing the carbon diffuses into the iron, and reduces the iron oxide to metallic iron and carbon monoxide. This CO raises blisters on the surface. Well, that is why they called it "blister steel". You really would not want your frizzen to be blistered.

Normally flat skelps of wrought iron were loaded in a box with layers of charcoal and the whole thing heated at least red hot, 1750F would be good. I think they may have cooked it about a week. When it should be "done", the steelmaker drew out one skelp, quenched it in water and broke it. The depth of the "steeling", or carburization, could be seen on the fracture surface. These bars had blisters all over the surface & needed to be forged down a bit. They might shear some in half, wire them up in a bundle & forge-weld them all together. Forging a thinner skelp out of this bundle made a somewhat more uniform steel, the grade called "shear steel"

When you see bright crystals in the fracture surface of a spring it means the grains are far to large, which tends to make the metal brittle. If you break a properly heat treated piece of steel it just shows a gray silky finish.

[jerrywh]

Dave R and Kelly.
  Some of the parts I worked on did have blisters on the surface. I have a spring with blisters on it.

[David R. Pennington]

Thanks for the education JC, that helps explain why quality steel in the old days was so precious. So I suppose most frizzens were laminated and other parts excluding springs would have been wrought with a surface case hardening?
David Rase, there are some advantages to living in this state, despite our bleak economic conditions. Mr. Roller invited me over to his shop and I spent a very enjoyable afternoon talking guns and old cars etc.,.and viewing some of his works in progress, Thanks Mr. Roller!

[jerrywh]

This is a photo of an original flintlock spring I have in the shop. This spring is broken and was replaced by me. In one of the photos you will see a black circle outlining a blister in the steel.  I believe this spring was made of wrought iron originally and then carberized by soaking in a charcoal pack for hours .  If this were not so the blister would probably have been filed off when the spring was formed.  I am not certain but this is my theory.  I have seen two or three other springs that had similar blisters and when broken you could see the grain in the metal. I have only seen one gun that had a steel welded or brazed on the Frizzen. It was a early repair on a French double flintlock pistol. The frizzen on the left lock was very worn but had not been refaced. 

[Bob Roller]

My lucky day, I happened to run into a lock expert today, Mr. Bob Roller. He suggests most originals probably had iron parts excluding the springs and some of the spring steel was of varying qualities, mostly guess work as he put it.

The new Muzzle Blasts that came yesterday has an article about back action locks and
pictured "Live and in color"are one back action and a magnificent bar lock probably made
in the shop of Joseph Brazier in London. The Brits really had it down as far as workmanship
is concerned. I have replaced one tumbler on a Brazier and I am sure it was iron and the same
for a "4 pin" bridle that had the top,front post broken apparently by speed cocking,a wretched
practice. This missing post would allow the hammer to be pulled back much to far and set up
a condition for a broken main spring,tumbler or link.
In this same magazine is an article by Bob Woodfill on the Medina Hawken and the man himself.
1833 is the year it was made and it's in fine condition and now in a private collection.
Next issue he says will start on how to copy it.Muzzle Blasts has taken a HUGE leap forward
and upward.I still have one sent to me by E.M.Farris in April of 1953 and what a difference!

Bob Roller