Memory wood?

[Turtle]

  This is a serious question. Sometimes when I build a gun, sand scratches, rasp marks, scraper marks ect. reappear after several coats of finish or even after the gun is built for a while. I use the same care on all jobs,  looking at all angles in good light both artificial and natural removing all visible roughness. I raise the grain 2-3 times with water. They look fine after staining. Most builds don't do this at all, some a little, and my latest gun a lot. I'm referring to curly maple stocks. I am using alcohol stain and permylin sealer and finish-hand rubbed.  Ideas to prevent this?
                                         Thanks, Turtle

[deepcreekdale]

Somebody here suggested using liquid yellow food coloring when you final sand and whisker the stock so I won't take credit for the idea but it works great. It will make any flaw stand out so you can correct them but not affect the final stain and finish.Rasps especially will leave deep wood trauma that will show up during final staining if not careful. I bring the stock to close to final shape with drawknives and spokeshaves which prevents this. Any rasping is done with a fine cut. Some curly maple just gets fuzzy areas, the only cure is carefully going over every square inch of the stock from all angles of light before, during and after the whiskering process.

[EC121]

I do the same thing with old alcohol or water based stains.  Most stain isn't as far in the wood as we think and will sand or scrape right off.  The food coloring is probably less expensive.

[JBJ]

I have experienced this "memory" wood and have come to believe that, at least in my case, it was caused by a couple of factors. First, a heavy hand while rasping, together with a not so sharp rasp, actually compressed some tiny amount of wood under the teeth. I couldn't see the compression but the wood felt it. Secondly, the stock that I was working on (walnut) was not as hard as it could have been (or desired!). I think that the combination gave me wood compression in streaks or in the form of striations. As the compressed wood responded to the stain and finish, it made itself visible as scratches. Having my rasps resharpened gave much better cutting action. Being less aggressive in my handling of the rasps also seemed to help. Scraping also significantly reduced this issue. Just my thoughts/experience.
J.B. 

[bama]

I have had this happen in the softer woods, walnut and red maple and cherry. I too think this is caused by heavy handed rasping. Sugar maple stands up to the rasp better and does not do this as bad. I have seen some original rifles that showed rasp marks in the finish so this problem has been around for a long time. Learning to stop with the rasp before you get to close to the final finish surface is the key to eliminating this problem. That is easier said than done.

[rich pierce]

Agree it is heavy rasping. One reason I mostly use spokeshaves except those faster transitions.

[jerrywh]

 It is not memory wood.  The scratches are there before you put on the stain and finish.  You just can't see them.   I  use to restore classic cars for about 10 years and did a lot of custom paint jobs.  This is a common thing that any good car painter is familiar with.  Custom car painters use what is called a color sanding coat to find these flaws.  Scratches are very hard to see in light colors. Dark colors show them the most and therefore a black car or any finish that is dark will show the flaws to extreme.  The darker the color and the smoother the finish the more they will show.  In my opinion there is no such thing as a perfect gun but close.  That is why so called piano finishes are not very popular on guns. They show the flaws to extreme.  I am just finishing up a nice long rifle and I have been working on the finish for almost a month. It is one flaw after another. If you want a very nice finish it's hard tedious work. It's not talent it's persistence.   I often wonder why anybody would subject themselves to this.  I think it is a form of insanity.

[WKevinD]

I liberally spray my stocks with alcohol let it dry and spray again to hopefully swell those file and rasp compressions before scraping. Every little whisker of wood stands right up.
I also use a food coloring "stain" to make the dents and scratches show up.
Kevin

[Turtle]

 Thanks for the suggestions. I used more aggressive coarse rasping on this last build to minimize hand and arm discomfort due to  physical problems which may have made it worse. I also used a scraper more, but that should have helped, right? Do you have to sand all the food coloring or stain off so as not have it show through the stain?
                                              Thanks, Turtle

[Marcruger]

I am no builder, but was told the yellow stain is left on, and it doesn't affect the final finish other than warming up the tones a bit. 

I am sure that someone with real experience will chime in soon. 

I saw one of the builders in the Vogler shop in Old Salem working on a yellow stained longrifle, hence my asking the question a long while back. 

I personally like the feel of a rifle that isn't scraped, sanded and finished to be as smooth as a bowling ball.  It shows that real hands made it. 

I also personally believe that rifle makers are often a worse critic of their guns than the final owner. 

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

[deepcreekdale]

Do you have to sand all the food coloring or stain off so as not have it show through the stain?
                                              Thanks, Turtle

Not really, you don't stain it a strong yellow, just put a few drops in an ounce or two of water when you go to whisker the stock. It will give the stock a slight yellow look but any scratches will be a darker yellow so you can address them. When you sand  to remove the whiskers, most if not all of the yellow will come off. There might be a slight tint to the wood but it shouldn't show. I use AF as final stain and I have not noted any difference in final color since using this method.