Bee`s Wax ?

[conquerordie]

I appologize for asking so many questions, is everyone heating their stocks with a heat gun to the point where the wax will bubble when applied, or applying wax and then heating? I'm gonna start running some tests on scrap pieces. Thanks again,
Greg

[B.Habermehl]

My only question is how would you repair a stock finished with bees wax? I had a gun in the shop that was finished this way and it was obvious that the wax had penetrated very deeply, the gun had a broken toe. The wax had penetrated to the point where there was no dry wood to glue. The guns owner passed away and I never got to do the repair. Just enough questions in my mind that would give me pause about using a wax based finish on any of my own work. BJH

[Frank]

I like what I am seeing here. Think I will use beeswax on a walnut stocked Early English trade gun that I am building.

[Daryl]

You may have to SOAK the toe of the stock in acetone - that will suck out the wax- a week soak will likely work - then another week to dry. It evaporates quickly when open to the atmosphere, so a closed vessel of some sort would help reduce the acetone needed.

[BOB HILL]

Good to know. Thanks, Daryl.
Bob

[Mike Brooks]

You may have to SOAK the toe of the stock in acetone - that will suck out the wax- a week soak will likely work - then another week to dry. It evaporates quickly when open to the atmosphere, so a closed vessel of some sort would help reduce the acetone needed.

I'll bet that won't work....not speaking from experience so there is a small chance I may be wrong...

[Daryl]

Could be Mike - it was a guess by me, but an acetone soak does work with oil impregnated stock, so might with wax as well.  A simple test will show if the acetone will emulsify wax.

[smallpatch]

I just don't get it.  There are so many tried and true ways to finish wood, yet some seem intent on reinventing the wheel.  Bees wax, linseed oil, one coat a day for a week, one coat a week for a month, one coat a month for a year, etc., etc.
This is just NOT that difficult guys.  Building guns is a lot of work, without adding all the " magic formulae".
I now relinquish the soap box.

[Frank]

I just don't get it.  There are so many tried and true ways to finish wood, yet some seem intent on reinventing the wheel.  Bees wax, linseed oil, one coat a day for a week, one coat a week for a month, one coat a month for a year, etc., etc.
This is just NOT that difficult guys.  Building guns is a lot of work, without adding all the " magic formulae".
I now relinquish the soap box.

Very true. Maybe I will just stick with my tried and true Chambers oil finish. The beeswax just sounded intriguing, but maybe not worth the risk.

[n stephenson]

Smallpatch, I don`t really think that anyone is trying to reinvent the wheel, just explore other methods. The results that have been posted are impressive at the least. I`m glad that people have tested and developed different ways to do stuff. In the 80s when I first started it seemed like Tru-Oil and Plumb brown were the go to finish ,not to offend anyone who likes that but, I can still spot an 80s gun across the room . Thank goodness that people have developed other methods . I might try the bee`s wax on a pistol or other build I don`t know but, this post was for information and, a lot of people with good first hand experience and results have proven that this technique is a viable alternative. That`s why I asked for experience instead of opinions. Thanks to everyone for a very informative post .       

[thecapgunkid]

In all the years I have made shoes and dibbled in Gun kits the item that seems to attract everybody's attention across the boards is beeswax.  It is, by far, the best lubricant a body can put on thread, but the reason this discussion thread is so long is probably because beeswax won't waterproof anything for very long but the stuff is so intriguing.

It will dry out over time, and guys who use it on guns, regardless of how deep it goes into the wood, have to really watch out for the lock and tang  areas of their guns, where there is a lot of heat and grime from the powder.

It burns.  That's why it is used in candles.

 I suspect that part of the protracted discussion we always have on this is because we can't get  sperm whale oil or other period products and default to it.

The guys who are having success with a beeswax finish are probably the guys who mixed it with something, such as an oil product, or who have tried it out somewhere other than a stock before engaging it.  ( Not for nothing, but there are some very interesting posts right here) Whether or not you finish a stock with it I have learned that every flathead screw hole in your gun ought to have a little beeswax in it.

You're nuts if you don't have a chunk of it somewhere in your kit.  Now, then...what can we do to help save the bees?

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid

[Joe S.]

hmmmm,save the bees,probably the best idea here but that's a whole other discussion.Over time seems as though better ways of doing things naturally come about,be it technology, experiment, ect.Modern is not always better but there's plenty of practically bullet proof finishes out there.On a site that explores the old ways of doing things these types of threads are great for kicking around stuff like this.Your rifle,your choice, best of all folks probably already tried it and you will get some feedback.While there probably no totally maintenance free finish,some better than others, sounds like this one will require more.One thing to think about is if some of our most respected builders choose to put it on their personal hunting guns and give it a thumbs up,that's saying something.

[okawbow]

As I posted earlier, I use a hot applied beeswax on wood bows and any other item that needs a quick, water resistant finish. I also use another bee product as a "ground" on my violins and many of my longrifles. Propolis, is a varnish like material produced by bees to protect their hives.

I buy dry propolis as it comes from the hives. The granules are put in a glass jar and covered with acetone or alcohol. The acetone dissolves the propolis quickly and produces a brownish yellow liquid floating on a slurry of beeswax and other solids. The liquid is poured off and brushed on the bare wood as a ground.

I use 1 or 2 coats on all surfaces, including the barrel channel and lock mortise. The liquid penetrates deep in the wood and provides some moisture, rot, and insect protection, as well as giving the wood a glowing yellow color. It smells wonderful also.

Propolis has been used as a ground and mixed with varnish for hundreds of years. I suspect some of the rifles we see with red violin varnish have propolis in the varnish or as a ground. Here is what the wood looks like with the propolis wash.

propolis ground back by okawbow, on Flickr

[magyar]

I used it on my very first build. I tried a lot of random things on the first build just for the experience! My only issue was using the heat gun on an aqua fortis-stained curly maple stock. I found very quickly when I went to heat the stock that I had not adequately neutralized the AF. No one can tell it now but it scared heck out of me to see a spot get a deeper brown than before. The wax was difficult to apply at first - thinking I only had to heat the stock and the wax would melt - but then I started warming the stock up as well as melting the wax over it. As I kept heat to it and had the wax spread on its own over the stock it took on a pretty even coverage and sheen. I could see it get pulled into the pores of the wood in some points. I then rubbed it back with burlap, making it as warm with pressure as I could. It made a very nice mellow sheen that has seemed to hold up. I would not say it is tough though. Its not hard and will not protect the wood from any dings but it certainly is good-looking and gave me the finish I wanted. Water certainly beads up and rolls off.

Really neat to try and even a bit fun. I will do it again definitely. Just take your time with it.

[Cody Tetachuk]

In all the years I have made shoes and dibbled in Gun kits the item that seems to attract everybody's attention across the boards is beeswax.  It is, by far, the best lubricant a body can put on thread, but the reason this discussion thread is so long is probably because beeswax won't waterproof anything for very long but the stuff is so intriguing.

It will dry out over time, and guys who use it on guns, regardless of how deep it goes into the wood, have to really watch out for the lock and tang  areas of their guns, where there is a lot of heat and grime from the powder.

It burns.  That's why it is used in candles.

I guess you would have to define "very long". The rifle i use has BW, been shooting it for about 15 years rain or shine and have experienced zero ill effects. In fact, unlike rifles with other finishes, the BW finished rifle has never (that I recall) had the patch box door stick shut due to expanding wood in wet weather. I don't know how many rounds I've shot through this rifle but it would likely be at least a thousand.

I suspect that part of the protracted discussion we always have on this is because we can't get  sperm whale oil or other period products and default to it.

The guys who are having success with a beeswax finish are probably the guys who mixed it with something, such as an oil product, or who have tried it out somewhere other than a stock before engaging it.  ( Not for nothing, but there are some very interesting posts right here) Whether or not you finish a stock with it I have learned that every flathead screw hole in your gun ought to have a little beeswax in it.

You're nuts if you don't have a chunk of it somewhere in your kit.  Now, then...what can we do to help save the bees?

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

The Capgun Kid

Not at all. Pure bee's wax and nothing else for the finish. Bee's wax reduced in turpentine for maintenance. BTW,  Honey bee populations and survival rates are higher than they have ever been (at least in Alberta and I believe Canada as a whole).

[Mike Brooks]

We have NO honey bees here any more. I blame all the GMO crops we grow.

[okieboy]

 As for removing waxes, the standard solvent is mineral spirits. Wax finishes are often chosen for antique wood conservation because the process is reversible: you put on a wax finish, you can remove it, you put on an oil finish and you have an oil finish forever.
 The same can be said for shellac finishes, they can be removed with alcohol.

[Cody Tetachuk]

We have NO honey bees here any more. I blame all the GMO crops we grow.

LOL

[Mike Brooks]

We have NO honey bees here any more. I blame all the GMO crops we grow.

LOL

I'm a conspiracy theory guy...what do you expect. My opinions are not at all popular here in big corn country.... I'm growing my own hogs this year to get away from GMO feeds...go figure.

[draton2681]

Does the bee's wax not sweat out of the stock and make a mess in hot conditions such as a hot car or direct sun light etc?

[Cody Tetachuk]

Does the bee's wax not sweat out of the stock and make a mess in hot conditions such as a hot car or direct sun light etc?

No

[WadePatton]

Does the bee's wax not sweat out of the stock and make a mess in hot conditions such as a hot car or direct sun light etc?

Once you've experienced the heat needed to apply, you'll understand why this is not a problem.   

Also, don't leave your gun on the dashboard or rooftop or pavement. 


Also THANKS for the propolis info Okawbow. 

[WadePatton]

I appologize for asking so many questions, is everyone heating their stocks with a heat gun to the point where the wax will bubble when applied, or applying wax and then heating? I'm gonna start running some tests on scrap pieces. Thanks again,
Greg

I don't have a heat gun, only torches and a hair dryer and a woodstove or two.  I found out that this hair dryer "set to kill" is BARELY enough heat to melt beeswax.  So I'm sure I didn't get it that deep and my fingers suffered a little.  Will use a better heat source next time I try beeswax. 

[Daryl]

Taylor's Hawken stock seems impervious - I did not believe it could be a good finish, until I saw it myself.

I once finished a "D" section oak Cherokee 55# bow with bacon grease, using heat to help it soak in.  I used the heat gun used for applying covering to radio-controlled air planes.  I was quite shocked by what a nice finish it actually gave the wood. Barely tell it had bacon grease in the wood and did not go 'rancid' as I thought it might.

[Joe S.]

Mmmmmm.....bacon.Looks like it's not just for breakfast anymore!