Author Topic: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...  (Read 4732 times)

Offline thecapgunkid

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while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« on: May 03, 2017, 01:15:59 PM »
When I was younger in a different century, Nate Mackenzie took one of the old Numrich Arms 15/16 .45 barrels and drilled right through the bottom of the barrel for pins with plenty of meat to spare whilst making one of the best guns I ever owned.  Bless that gun because it won a lot of ribbons and medals for me.

My question is, once you've established that there is enough metal on the barrel, how do you drill through without the bit sliding off the flat?

Thanks

Capgun

Offline WadePatton

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 02:32:28 PM »
With a good punch mark that provides a divot to start in-if using a press.  By hand one can start  "off angle"-square to the flat and then quickly "roll up" into proper vertical position once the bit starts.   



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Offline flehto

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 03:06:53 PM »
After easily drilling the wood, the lug {BBL] is met and due to lack of experience, if the "felt" resistance of the " lug" is too long, then the BBL is being drilled.  But, it takes a few builds to discern this. 

Making a faulty layout for the bbl lug pin hole is another "screw up" attributable to inexperience....just can't be sloppy about it and cross your fingers  and hope it comes out right.....chances are it won't.  I make a detailed sketch for each BBL lug {RR pipe lug} and double check the measurements and dims.... and if not done correctly, at a minimum, wasted time repairing and worse, a new bbl.

Not criticizing inexperienced builders because both their "touch" w/ drilling and making correct layouts  will happen....or should.

W/ the thin webs being used {1/16" at the breech and 5/32" at the muzzle}, not much leeway for a 1/16 dia pin. .....Fred

   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 03:14:41 PM by flehto »

Offline okieboy

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 05:56:25 PM »
 The best way and the way that it is done in machine shops is to first create a flat spot by using an end mill slightly larger than your drill diameter. Next you provide a start for your drill with a spotting drill or a center drill. This can be done on a drill press  IF  your press has good tight bearings and you proceed gently.
Okieboy

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2017, 06:49:25 PM »
Thanks, Fred.  That's about what I thunk

Capgun

Offline jerrywh

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 07:53:57 PM »
 You can do it with a fixture that fits the side of the barrel and guides the drill bit so that the bit can not shift. The same way the guy accidentally drilled through his barrel. Even a hard wood fixture will work.
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 08:24:38 PM »
I have an old Numrich minute man rifle that is .45 cal. X15/16" ATF, that has the pins through the bottom flat of the barrel. I got the gun from a guy that dropped it and broke it through the wrist. I think it was a factory finished gun. If that is the case that is how Numrich pinned the barrel.

  Hungry Horse

Offline T*O*F

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 08:53:12 PM »
Quote
I think it was a factory finished gun. If that is the case that is how Numrich pinned the barrel.
You are correct.   Both finished guns and kits came that way.
Dave Kanger

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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 09:05:15 PM »
I also had a factory finished Numrich in a 15/16-50 cal like that. I also own an original half stock with a key that goes through the bottom of the barrel, the bottom of the barrel is dove tailed, key goes through half it's thickness in the dove tail.

ron w

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2017, 10:32:04 PM »
oakieboy has the correct way, anything else is asking for inaccuracies. a 1/4" end mill will cut a flat spot with a vice for the barrel and a decent drill press. just take it real easy on the feed.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2017, 02:18:34 AM »
Numrich guns don't have any kind of flat spot milled into the barrel before the pin hole is drilled. So obviously there are ways of drilling the pin hole without buying a milling machine.

  Hungry Horse

ron w

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2017, 05:38:44 AM »
Numrich guns don't have any kind of flat spot milled into the barrel before the pin hole is drilled. So obviously there are ways of drilling the pin hole without buying a milling machine.

  Hungry Horse

   the term, "end mill" does not refer to a milling machine, it refers to a specific type of milling tool that is used in a milling machine. these tools have simple round shanks that can be chucked in any drill press chuck as well as any milling machine. a typical 1/4 in diameter end mill, costs about 15 bucks and if used diligently it will last forever. I have a few that are well over 20 years old and still cut fine,.....and I don't have a milling machine.   you don't need a milling machine to cut a small flat on a barrel a decent drill press (which most builders have),... will do fine. 
    the drill guide that Numrich uses probably would cost more than a good drill press,....so us peons use an end mill to establish a plane that is perpendicular o the center line of the hole we intend to drill.  Numrich Arms is a company that sells hundreds if not thousands of barrels a year, the cost of the drill guide is then minor in comparison to the proceeds gained by having it.
    any time you drill a hole into a slanted surface, you have to have some way of supporting the entrance point of the drill bit, or it will drift,....the smaller the bit the worse the drifting. it cannot be avoided by just a good heavy center punch either, because one side of the drill bit is making contact with the drilled surface before the other side as the bit starts, forces the bit away from the higher side. even a heavy center punch itself will drift because the point is unevenly in contact all the way around the punch and punching at a right angle to the barrels surface to make a small divot for the drill bit to sit in means guessing where the drill bit will finally break the surface and start drilling the hole.   these are the inaccuracies I talk about in my post above.  the point of the drill bit has to be supported right at the drilled surface, or introduced to a surface that is perpendicular to the center line of the drilled hole,....or the bit will drift as it starts it's cut,... it is simple machine tool geometry. this support comes in the form of an octagonal sleeve that fits over the barrel, is clamped in place and holds a hardened bushing right down tight to the surface being drilled so the bit doesn't have a chance to drift as it starts the hole on a slanted surface. it wouldn't surprise me if they have a dedicated drill press set up permanently with this fixture in place, with several sleeves for the different barrel sizes they sell.

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2017, 04:07:56 PM »
now I know its not a preferred gun of reference, but the Texas made Mowrey guns had their brass forearms pinned through
the bottom of the barrels. Seen it myself on a .45 and pictures of one with a .58 barrel..

FWIW

Metalshaper

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2017, 04:22:42 PM »
Gratifyingly, a lot more than I expected here , so thanks folks.

It seems that a lot of this discussion revolved around Numrich Arms.  That is where I got the barrel originally.  Are they still in business?

My Minute man, my first flintlock, broke at the wrist also.  Maybe a victim of early designs, you could stare hard at a Minuteman and break the overly thin wrist.

Thanks again

Capgun

Offline FDR

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2017, 11:31:25 PM »

Offline dogcreek

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 02:08:49 AM »
Okie boy has the right idea.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: while we're on the topic of drilling through a barrel...
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 04:46:47 PM »
The design flaw in the old Minuteman rifle was the lack of supporting metal at the breech. The tang was just held in with a woodscrew, and the other end was a piece of Allen wrench that fit into the oversized setscrew that was the breech plug. The trigger assembly was short, and gave no support either. All of this combined with a narrow wrist didn't give you very many second chances if you weren't the careful sort. I built a poor boy out of a reject Minuteman stock with a long breechplug tang, and a long  trigger plate, and have been shooting it for years without a problem. In fact at a club shoot designed to get the public involved in shooting sports, a developmentally disabled young man dropped the old poor boy after it went off, and only broke the ramrod.

 Hungry Horse