Installing a single trigger with seperate trigger plate

[Dennis Glazener]

Finally am getting back to work on my Chambers early Lancaster. I made the trigger plate today and I think I am ready to pin the trigger in the stock but since I have not done this before I thought I would verify I am doing it right.

I have not inlet the plate but have slotted it for the trigger. When I put everything in position (as best I can) it looks like the sear bar will strike the trigger bar at about 1/3 the distance from the front (towards muzzle) of the trigger. According to what I have read this is correct positioning for a lighter pull. My question is where to drill for the pivot pin? In looking at the Bivins type trigger assembly (pin goes through the trigger plate bolster) it looks like this pin would be in the lower front of the trigger bar. I seem to remember one of you mentioning to drill the hole for the pivot pin higher (up toward the sear bar). This looks like it would be ok but before I do it I want to make sure I "remembered" right (sometimes I don't remember what I think I remember!)

Will 3/32 music wire be large enough for the pin?

Since the cutout in the stock probably was for a double sett trigger (wider than for the single trigger)  I plan to glue a piece of wood in that hole and cut a new one the width of the trigger which is .080" thick.

Dennis

[smallpatch]

Dennis,

Yes, pin it as high as you can, about 3/8" forward of the sear.

As far as the inlet..... just make a new trigger plate.  I think the wood is inletted for the York trigger plate.  You can use one of those too.  Way easier than patching and re-inletting.  3/32 pin is fine.  I just us1/16.

Hope this helps.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Dennis,

I pin the trigger "as high as possible" that is higher than the sear. You can always file down the bar on the trigger to fit under the sear. just think about how to get the best leverage and keep the trigger bar just in contact with the sear so it doesn't flop around.  

Truth is I file the trigger bar so it slopes down from front to back at about a 30 degree angle so that in combination with the high pin i get the smooth and light trigger pull I want.  

I use 1/16" music wire for mine and it has worked fine on my fowler for three years and lots  of firing.

BTW Since the pin is under the lockplate I bend the end over so that I can reach into the lock mortise with a pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out and therefore don't have to take my sideplate out nor make a hole on the sideplate molding to drive the pin out.

[Dennis Glazener]

As far as the inlet..... just make a new trigger plate.  I think the wood is inletted for the York trigger plate.  You can use one of those too.  Way easier than patching and re-inletting.  3/32 pin is fine.  I just us1/16.

Thanks Dane I will pin it high!
As far as the inlet I probably confused you. The trigger plate I made is fine but underneath the plate the part that goes down to the sear bar is cut wider than what my single trigger is. I was going to plug this up and re-cut the slot for the trigger bar to work in. I would think it needs to be tight like the slot in the trigger plate.
Thanks
Dennis

[Dennis Glazener]

BTW Since the pin is under the lockplate I bend the end over so that I can reach into the lock mortise with a pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out and therefore don't have to take my sideplate out nor make a hole on the sideplate molding to drive the pin out.

Thanks, good suggestion, will try that.
Dennis

[KentSmith]

Dennis, with the lock removed I lay the trigger on lock mortise in the position it will be when installed and line up everything the way I need it to be.  I clamp it there and drill the hole in the trigger and mark the hole for the pin inside the mortise.  Not sure that makes sense.  Placing the pin just ahead and above the sear gives the light pull and makes it easy to run the pin through the stock and out just beneath the sideplate.  I like a heavy pin and forge my own trigger because I like a thick trigger - I can always file things down.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's how I do a simple trigger.  Basically as described above.  I use 1/16" wire or a .070" nail.  And I go right through so I can push it out from the off side.  The slot in the wood for the trigger should be just bigger than the steel...not too tight either.

[J. Talbert]

Taylor,

Simple concept... Great illustration!

Jeff

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks Jeff.  You can see that this is a "Taylor Made" trigger, so the piece under the clamp is much longer than it'll be when finished.  And the pivot pin went through the inlet for the sear's screw head.  For the record, this set up provided a very clear crisp trigger break on the finished rifle.

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks guys. That is the way I envisioned it but seeing the Bivins trigger plate/trigger assembly (pin through bolster in trigger plate) made me question putting it higher. I used one of those type trigger on an earlier rifle and it works well. But I want this one lighter if possible.
Thanks
Dennis

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Dennis, I wouldn't use the trigger plate's bolster either, to pin the trigger.  TOW sells an English plate, with a simple trigger, in which the trigger is pinned to a boss on the plate, but it is WAY higher into the stock.  This is just an example of how it can be done, using an integral boss on the plate.  But pinning through the wood works really well.  Just ignore the plate's boss, or file it off.

[Don Getz]

Taylor....liked the picture, it illustrates the procedure real well.  But, if you are pinning it right near the screw that the sear pivots on, won't this make for a long (3/4") lever, where it pushes up on the sear?  I prefer to keep this "lever" part shorter, 3/8", no more than 1/2" from the sear bar, to gain that mechanical advantage?      Explain..........Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I find there's a trade off, as in all things, between light and crisp.  I'm always afraid that if I'm any closer to the bar with the pivot pin, I'll get a long mushy pull before it breaks.  Please correct me if I'm all wet.
As it turned out with this Rupp - the same one I had in PA in '07 - the trigger pull suited me (and her new owner) perfectly.  I will have to give your system a try just so I know the difference.

[Don Getz]

Taylor.....the reason I questioned this is because I have pinned the trigger too far from the sear bar and consequently
had a hard pull, you lose some of the mechanical advantage.   I will admit, the closer you pin the trigger to the sear bar
the farther the trigger will have to move in order to set the lock off.  It does become a trade off.   On the last few guns
I have built I have placed the trigger pin about 3/8" from the sear.....you get a little "creep",  but the pull is light.  I always
stone the sears, and have, on occassion, even lightened the sear spring.   Some sear springs are so strong they can give
your gun a hard pull all by itself.  That's the fun part of gunbuilding...........Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You've just said a mouthful Don.  Until I joined this wonderful forum, I learned all I know by trail and error/success.  I'm happy to say, the successes made the other worthwhile.  Since I became a member here, my knowledge and the enjoyment of persuing it has increased exponentially.  With much thanks from guys like me, to guys like you.

[keweenaw]

I prefer a bit longer distance between the trigger pivot and the sear, just as Taylor said.  With some judicious stoning of the sear nose and the tumbler notch on can achieve a remarkable crisp pull in the 2 1/2 to 3 lb. range that is safe from gun drops, etc.

Tom

[J. Talbert]

That was a lesson learned the hard way for me, quite a while back.  I thought I was being sooo smart, applying my vast knowledge of physics and geometry and all that great stuff.  I reasoned that the closer the pivot to the sear the LIGHTER the trigger pull.  So I got it good and close allright.  Only to discover that the thousands of people that had done this before me weren't so dumb after all. 
Talk about trigger creep...
I had to move the pivot.
Problem corrected,  LESSON LEARNED!

There's no such thing as a free lunch!

Jeff