Author Topic: So let's start this fiasco!  (Read 4882 times)

Stonedog

  • Guest
So let's start this fiasco!
« on: July 25, 2017, 03:52:20 AM »
So here is the stock for the Rupp I've been talking about...

I also have the barrel and lock that go with this stock.

Obviously the breech plug tang has not been inlet.

What's the first thing that I should do?










place to upload pictures
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 03:54:37 AM by Stonedog »

JNG3

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 04:06:35 AM »
Go to the tutorial section and find Mike Brooks gun building thread. It has the answers you seek.

Offline oldtravler61

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4413
  • We all make mistakes.
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 04:21:37 AM »
 For me since it is a kit. I would make sure the barrel is inletted
 properly. Second I would put the breech plug in. Make sure it's breached properly. Then Mark wear the touch hole should be an Mark it.
 Pull the breech plug. Put the barrel back in the stock an see if the lock fits the mortice inlet. Then see if the pan an touch hole line up to the center of the pan.
  Then go back to Mike's tutorial an take it step by step.
 Also learn patience an don't hurry. Then before you touch that stock make sure your chisels are super sharp. Otherwise anything you attempt to do will be a disappointment. Guess how I know. Oldtravler

Stonedog

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 04:31:45 AM »
Wow! That tutorial just cleared up a LOT for me!

Offline SingleMalt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
  • One day I'll be considered a good builder.
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 04:36:36 AM »
I'd print it out, if I were in your position. 
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

Dave Patterson

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 05:02:33 AM »
Don't know if there's anything here that might help you with this project, but:  http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/plans.html

There's several Lehigh plans offered here, including a Herman Rupp and a John Rupp.

Offline smallpatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4107
  • Dane Lund
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 05:23:26 AM »
Please take this n the spirit given.

It kinda sounds like you're putting the old cart before the horse thing.  Maybe buy some books.... Recreating the American Longrifle is a great place to start.  At least get a feel for the process before you begin.
We are here to help, answer stupid questions and the like.
Many of those will be avoided with a little education.  Believe me, you'll still have many more.
In His grip,

Dane

thimble rig

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 06:19:54 AM »
Peter Alexander has a really good book The Gunsmith of Grenville county.Track of the wolf sells it.Also Peter has about 5 videos out to.You can go to the classified section and find his web site.Very interesting book to read to get you started.I would advise you to read and watch all the videos you can to help you get going,that way you wont mess up to badly.Leighs are a really tough build to get their features right.The kra has some dvds on the leigh valley rifles.I don't know where you live but dixions fair is coming up this weekend that would be the place to go and see some leighs up close.

Offline Mauser06

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 932
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 06:41:12 AM »
I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. 

I've always wanted to build a Flintlock but wasn't sure if I could..or how to go about it....so I didn't. 


Found a replacement barrel for a Thompson center I liked.  Knew several places sold "replacement" stocks and furniture. All I needed was the tang and that was easy to find. Already had a replacement lock.


My stock and pile of parts came and I was kinda overwhelmed...I sat for a month staring at it...I expected to do very minor work...


Boy I was wrong.  Stock was BIG.  Way oversized.  Only thing inlet was the lock and trigger and not even close to fitting.  Barrel didn't even come close. 


Rather than try to send it all back I decided to learn. 


First I fit the barrel. Once it was fit I did as advised above and worked in the lock/pan placement and got it to line up...

From there I fought with the butt plate... about ran out of stock length and it's still not on how it aughta be...

Forgot to mention...the replacement metal furniture?  Pretty rough and no holes drilled...I had to do it all. Filing, sanding, drilling, countersinking etc...then finishing!

The rifle has it's flaws. It's nothing near an accurate representation of anything.


It IS however the most accurate flintlock I've ever fired.  And I killed a buck and a doe with it during it's first season.   

I learned a lot putting that rifle together...it took a while...but I did it. 

I now have a pistol in the vice and 2 rifles planned.  All 3 from planks...the pistol I'm actually doing the barrel myself by hand.  The rifles I am having the barrel inlet now..


Good luck with the project!!   As was said, a couple books and videos will be of great reference.  I spend a fair bit of time "doing homework" when I can.

Offline pjmcdonald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 06:47:47 AM »
Collect up all of your parts and take them with you Jim's (Bama) class. Best money and time you will spend. I waited 6 months to get there. Worth it.

Beyond that, I'd suggest just go slow.

Paul

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 05:58:11 PM »
Collect up all of your parts and take them with you Jim's (Bama) class. Best money and time you will spend. I waited 6 months to get there. Worth it.

Beyond that, I'd suggest just go slow.

Paul
This isn't bad advice. My best advice is to gather all that stuff up and send it to somebody that knows how to build lehighs.

I have been building guns for 37 years and still feel like I don't know enough about lehighs to build one.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Bigmon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1415
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 06:10:36 PM »
All very good advice.

But I'd like to know where you got that pre carved stock??
Is it a swamped barrel??
Thanks

Stickburner

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 07:03:58 PM »
I agree with PJ.  In the long run, attending Jim's class can save you far more money than it costs.  I bought Recreating the American Longrifle at a muzzleloader match in 1995, read most of it, and decided I could build my own.

My first build was a Track of the Wolf 45 caliber southern mountain rifle in 1996.  It's very accurate and comfortable to shoot but the stock isn't near as slim as it should be.  Luckily the barrel fit in the stock without any problem.  Unfortunately the gunsmith I hired to install the sights cut the front dovetail about an inch too far forward and the rear dovetail about four inches too far back.  I didn't know where the sights should be but I expected him to know since he had "built" several muzzle loaders using Green Mountain barrels, Pecatonia stocks, and Thompson Center Renegade kit parts.  I had to move the rear sight forward twice before I got it where I could see it well. 

My next build was a 50 caliber Jim Chambers Lancaster.  I bought Jim Turpin's cd and watched it several times before starting the build and luckily it turned out pretty good considering I could not make myself slim it down enough.

With two builds under my belt I decided my wife deserved a better rifle than the Jukar she had been shooting for several years.  She and I went to Jim Chambers shop, met Barbie, and let them decide which rifle best fit her while I drooled over Jim's rifles.  They decided on a 45 caliber York with a $50 stock upgrade.  With the parts in hand I jumped in with both feet.

To make a very long story short I worked on that kit for well over a year before mangling that beautiful piece of wood a making it unsalvageable.  Along the way I bought Peter Alexander's book, RCA 1&2, and several other books.  I was long on confidence but short on knowledge and ability.

I ordered a new stock and while waiting for it I discovered Bama's gun building classes.  I decided it wound probably be less expensive to learn the proper way to build than to continue doing it my way so I signed up.  That was a very good decision.  I discovered several things I was doing was wrong because I misunderstood what I had read.

I'm close to finally finishing Vicki's rifle.  She had never shot a flintlock before this one but has put about a hundred shots through it while determining where she wanted the rear sight.

I strongly recommend Bama's class.  You will learn how to properly build a muzzle loader and which tools are essential for doing the job without destroying valuable parts.  The next most important thing in my opinion is the opportunity to handle some original guns and be able to better understand what the authors of the gun building books were trying to get across.

Good luck with your build, however you decide to proceed.

Offline Scota4570

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2396
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 07:30:30 PM »
Carefully examine the stock for carver errors and other flaws.  Measure, check for square, check the ramrod hole, go over every inch.  Make certain it is useable.  Once you cut it it is yours. 

n stephenson

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 07:58:36 PM »
Good advise from many points of view. You get to pick your path. I would suggest as others have read the books ,watch videos , ask questions , sharpen tools , practice some inletting on scrap wood, then get your feet wet and proceed with caution.  keep us posted .   Nate

Stickburner

  • Guest
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 09:33:05 PM »
The most important thing I learned was to constantly check that the top flat of the barrel is at ninety degrees to the rectangular unshaped portion of the precarved stock.  A combination square works well for this.

That will help you prevent canting the barrel which will cause a problem in letting the lock with the bolster squarely against the side flat of the barrel.  I learned this the hard way.

Offline oldtravler61

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4413
  • We all make mistakes.
Re: So let's start this fiasco!
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 10:10:16 PM »
  Stonedog the advice about Peter Alexander's DVD s an book is real good advice.
  In the video he is building a Lehigh style rifle. He points out the subtle things that make it a tough build.
 The points he shows you to us new builders are crucial for that style.
  Some of it you might shake your head at. But pay attention because he Knows. JMHO  Oldtravler