3rd times a charm?

[somehippy]

Well I didn't make It very long before I HAD to rip er apart and start over for the third time (like building up 3 rifles for the price of one  ).  First and foremost I'd like to thank greybeard for setting me straight with my dimensions via email and a phone call as well as sending me some pictures of some Berks county style rifles he has made.  I took the sides of the barrel and ramrod channels down some more, narrowed the sides, and after removing a good portion of the cheek rest I left too large, slimmed up and narrowed the wrist as adopt a more oval cross section as opposed to a "diamond" shape.  So she's pretty much all scraped up, I drew up an outline for my proposed carving and thought I'd post it here and get some opinions from you fine folks here before I start chiseling it out.

Thanks,

* I redid the portion behind the wrist some as shown In the second pic
 

[Mike Brooks]

Need to smooth out those curves on your carving before you start. I can spend a whole day doing that, then sometimes I come out the next morning and erase all of it and start over.

[Chowmi]

I have some comments, but first I will caveat them:
I am not a student of Berks Co. rifles, so it could be that what I say is wrong for Berks Co.

Behind the Cheekrest:

I like the overall design and flow of it.  I think it looks squished up against the rear of the cheek rest.  You have a little room to move it aft, and that might balance it better.  I can't really tell from the pictures what the design is in the space between the crossing vines.  I think it's a leaf?  Looks a bit busy to me, but hard to tell from the photo. 
The arc leading from the back of the cheek rest to the rear of the comb looks to me like it has a bit of a sharp bend in it, rather than flowing nicely to the top.  That may be a Berks Co. thing?  I looked at some photos in the library, but it was hard to tell if that is a characteristic of that school.  To me, it doesn't flow right. 

Forward of the cheek rest:
I think the design is pretty good.  The two tendrils that extend forward towards the side panel feel a bit straight to me, maybe they could curve down a bit.  Another thought:  The design is all tendrils.  Could you convert some of the inner ones to acanthus leaves?  It might balance it better. 
Also, the arc of the molding line you have from the front of the cheek rest to the nose of the comb looks funny to me with that upward hump that then goes back down as it goes forward.  I'd rather see a clean arc.  Berks Co. thing, or your own design?

Tang:
I think the circular bit right by the tang is too circular.  Would it look better if it were more oval or egg shaped? 

Overall comments:

A lot of your tendrils seem to have parallel sides.  They have a symmetry, rather than growing thicker from base to the volute.  Have a look at some of the books on drawing tendrils.  Gunsmith of Grenville talks about it.  I think you could use the same design, but re-draw the tendrils to be more flowing and dynamic.  That would give it a lot better feel.  The point is, that I think the overall design is pretty good, but your individual lines need to flow better.  Take out the humps and bumps and parallel sides. 

[n stephenson]

You`ve got it looking a lot better . Like Mike and Chowmi  said , maybe smooth the curves a little . I`ve found that instead of drawing curves slowly a little at a time , mine come out smoother if I draw with a continual flow instead of shorter more choppy drawing , just a thought .I like the fact that you weren't satisfied with what you had and, dove in to do something about it .!!  Looking good , keep going!!

[somehippy]

I've scraped at it a good bit since taking the pics, and erased and redrawn stuff, and scraped some more, and yes there's probably another day or twos scraping before I commit to the carving.  As a general outline, am I on the right track?  I will likely redraw it a few times more, still trying to get a feel for what proper carving should look like without directly copying something else.

Thanks

[somehippy]

Thank you all so very much for your input, I'm determined to get er right, or righter this time.

[greybeard]

Hi Luke. Paper is cheap so practice on paper or a few days and see how much your drawing improves OK!         
Might surprise you.     Bob

[somehippy]

Good point, silly me . Thanks Bob

[Jerry V Lape]

Most of the designs like this are organic - they are modeled from real plants, vines, acanthus in particular.  Stems don't have "jinks".  Parallel sided vines and stems are not normal either - they need to have gentle tapers.  The ends are modeled a lot like the fiddleheads on newly spouted ferns.  Tendrils are similar to those on grape vines and other climbing plants.  Get these organics firmly fixed in mind as the  desired design.  Drawing takes real effort to produce a pleasant design.  Then draw it on a curved surface and carve it a couple times.  Find out where you have designed things which aren't going to work within your current carving skills and redo the design.  This is one aspect of building which is pure artisan and you make or break the piece with it.  I wouldn't consider carving on the gun until I have rehearsed it successfully on a mock stock surface.  I think it is acceptable to copy the designs of the school your rifle represents, at least the first few times.  It really helps to take a class from one of the well known  carvers .

[Mike Brooks]

Don't be worried about copying something else. That's how you learn how to do this sort of stuff.

[Goo]

Mechanical drawing templates are helpful, circles, ovals, radius etc.   drawings with graphite pencil  on paper can transfer by laying graphite side against wood and rubbing to get a faint layout which can then be enhanced.

[Hungry Horse]

You want to design your carving to utilize the curviture of your carving tools. If the curves and the tools match, it is very easy to stab the initial cuts in. If the don't match it going to be a long hard row. This is why the curves have to have a smooth flowing design, with no tight spots or kinks.

  Hungry Horse

[somehippy]

Bit the bullet and did see carving, still some smoothing out to do.....


photo hosting sites

[greybeard]

Hi Luke. Looking better!    Bob

[somehippy]

Thanks Bob! Bit more scraping around the back ground then on to staining.

[somehippy]

Still needs a few days in the sun with some more BLO, but it might finally be almost done!  Just polishing the furniture some more and gotta order me a new tumbler screw (along with parts for the next project ). 

[greybeard]

Hi Luke.                                                       Looking pretty good for a first effort. Show us some full length pics when it is all together and a range report.     Bob

[somehippy]

After making my tumbler and getting that sorted out yesterday I took some pics, hope to get out shootin today!  Sorry pics are huge, don't know how to fix that...

[n stephenson]

Somehippy, I give you credit for jumping in and getting wet. I applaud the fact that you didn't sit there scared and not try your hand at carving. It is a good first attempt and I`m sure you will continue to refine your techniques and your skill will improve . Unless you handed me the rifle and asked for a critique I wont give one but, If any of the better builders offer you advice it will only be to help with the  improvement we all strive for.  If you`ve just finished this one and, your like the rest of us , your wheels have probably already been turning about your next project . Do you care to give a teaser of what`s to come or do you just want to surprise us?      Good Job !!!  Nate

[somehippy]

Thanks Nate, for the amount of things I messed up on this rifle I'm finally happy, it's got flaws all over lol but it could been worse, learned lots about fixing boo-boos.  Next one's gonna be a plain cherry wood half stock 3/4"/34" 30 Cal, of the southern flavour with a grease hole.  Got my barrel inlet and started on my trigger guard, hope to try my hand at triggers and am debating leaving it a poor boy, manton lock from Mr Tommy Bruce should arrive next week got the bug bad... Already think I gotta make a Fowler....

[somehippy]

Went out shooting last night and it actually shot! Had a flash in the pan on the first round, then got a dozen shots before cleaning my flint up with no missfires or flashes in the pan.  Stayed on the paper, eventually got a bit of a group going slightly to the right, about 5 inside a snuff tin at 50 yards, just gotta get over the flinching and wondering if it's gonna go off lol. Least she's shootin! Finally! Most I've got to shoot it in my two years of meddling with it.  Wouldn't have happened without this place.

[greybeard]

     Sounds like she is o k Luke        Bob