1803 Rifle parts kit

[Database121]

Hey everyone. I'm very new to black powder and muzzle loading, only recently having been introduced to it by a friend also new to it. I've been looking at kits for the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle as my first build. I'm looking mostly at the offerings from Track of the Wolf and The Rifle Shoppe. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these specific kits, and what the difficulty of the build would be for a complete novice if I have stuff like the sights and barrel rib installed by the manufacturer (I've built a few ARs but nothing like this). Any advice or assistance the good people of the forum can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[Dennis Glazener]

Take a look at Don Stith's Lewis/Clark rifle kit at donstith.com
Dennis

[redheart]

I don't believe Don offers the Mod. 1803.
If you're a stickler for detail, get the Rifle Shoppe parts. But be prepared to wait a year or more for them to fill the order.
Otherwise get the TOW kit. It'll be good practice for you.

[elk killer]

PM sent

[Bob Roller]

Don Stith is your best chance on this gun.The Rifle Shoppe is way too slow
and seldom has what is needed on the shelf.
ONTARGETS@AOL.COM is Don's Email. He's in Troutville.Va

Bob Roller

[Don Stith]

 I appreciate the kind words but I do not offer parts for the 1803 Harpers Ferry halfstock
  The 1792 contract rifle is a fullstock Lancaster rifle
Don

[Hungry Horse]

I would suggest something not so technical, and exacting, for a first build. There is no wiggle room on an exact replica like this one. None of the HF kits are cheap, or easy. I think a more generic longrifle with some of your own interpretation of carving,and inlays, will make you happier in the long run. JMO.

  Hungry Horse

[Mike_StL]

I have built the Rifle Shoppe version of the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle.

There are several issues to consider for such a build.  There are at least 3 versions of the rifle.  Most versions are the version produced based on the 1804 production contract, TOW or Davis kits.  The  Rifle Shoppe also offers aversion based on an 1803 remnant rifle that may be one of a preproduction build or the rifle built after 1812.

Whatever version you may want to build, you need to be aware that most of these kits come with pre inlet stocks. The major impact is that the barrels come with a breech plug that is long.  Using the pre cut inletting, the end of the breech plug will be in front of the touch hole.  Because the barrel breech is tapered, you can't cut off a few threads and move the barrel back without getting all sorts of gaps.  Since the lock inlet is already cut, you can't move the lock forward.  Not to mention, alignment of the lock fence with the tang and barrel is too far forward.

The solution that I used was to use the parts as produced.  I followed the suggestion from the Mad Monk to notch the breech plug. I also consulted with builders of muzzleloading rifles in my gun club.  I did dish out a shallow concavity in the face of the breech plug.  I have no signs of leakage or build up of corrosion in the breech.

Since you are a new builder, order a compete and tuned lock for your rifle.  The Rifle Shoppe locks are a collection of investment cast parts.  Unless you have the machinery to assemble and harden the parts, a pre assembled lock will be money well spent.

[Database121]

That's some very useful information Mike, thanks. I was planning on using an already assembled lock from the beginning, not sure I want to even try to build the lock myself, well, ever. I was also aware of the different versions of the rifle itself having read all the information on Rifle Shoppe's website, as well as speaking with a friend that actually worked at Harper's Ferry NHS a few years ago. I however was not aware of the breech plug issue, how difficult is to to notch out the breech plug? And all things considered how did the rifle turn out?

I am kind of leaning towards the TOW kit, if for no other reason than it seems I can get a fair amount of the metal work (sights, tenion, barrel rib, and ram rod pipes) done on their end. TOW also seems to have almost everything in stock right now, which is a bonus to be sure.

[Mike Brooks]

When ever I was wrangled into building a Rifle Shoppe kit I ordered all the parts and stocked it from a blank. Also has somebody else assemble the lock.

[Don Stith]

You might ask TOW to get you a stock without a lock inlet.
 Once you have all the barrel related work done, the 1803 is a fairly simple build.  No nose cap or toe plate to fuss with
 The stocks were not interchangeable on the originals so not as persnickety as some other martial rifles as far as being exactly correct
  At least the early ones were hand shaped and the location of lugs and similar details varied considerably
  I have owned several in the 1805 to 1807 mfg date range and there was lots of variation.  The only thing that was standardized was the lock internals.  Even the lock plates varied in size and shape
  While the Davis lock is stamped 1803 it is shaped more like the ones from the 1815 to 1819 time period
  At least TRS has the right shaped plate. They can be tricky to assemble though  Don't have a clue where my drill fixtures are for those or I would loan them to you

[Bob Roller]

When ever I was wrangled into building a Rifle Shoppe kit I ordered all the parts and stocked it from a blank. Also has somebody else assemble the lock.

I made 2 left and right pairs from TRS parts and never again.
My internal parts were made special for these and they still
took me to my limit of patience and skill.
I agree with HH. When I made my first muzzle loader I was
happy when it went off on the first shot and was reusable
for another shot.

Bob Roller

[Joe S.]

When ever I was wrangled into building a Rifle Shoppe kit I ordered all the parts and stocked it from a blank. Also has somebody else assemble the lock.

When I made my first muzzle loader I was
happy when it went off on the first shot and was reusable
for another shot.

Bob Roller

LOL,Bob, I have been thinking the same thing about my first I'm working on.

[Mike_StL]

Its not really hard to put the notch in the breech plug.

Once the touch hole location is determined and marked by assembling to the point that the barrel, breech and lock are in position, it is time to remove the breech plug and drill the touch hole.  Of course a registration mark has been made on the barrel and breech plug to realign the parts later.  Remove the breech plug, drill the touch hole.  This is where using a drill press and some center drill to start the drilling.  Take it slow.  Use cutting oil.  I drilled a 1/16" touch hole.  Once the touch hole is in the barrel, reinstall the breech plug and use the drill to mark the side of the breech plug.  Now the question is whether to use a touch hole liner or just the touch hole.  If you use a touch hole liner, the notch should be about the size of the opening in the liner.  Remove the breech plug.  Use a ball grinder to dish out a cavity in the breech face.  Use a round file to make the notch to the depth that can accommodate the touch hole.  I used the 1/16" touch hole.  With the breech plug removed I had access to the touch hole from the inside and I made a small cavity similar to the enlarged chamber in a touch hole liner.  Any way, it worked just fine.  I have fast ignition, good accuracy and a handy little rifle.

The under rib can be a bit of assembly thought.  The barrel is round and you need to be sure that you are installing the under rib and the sights so the sights are on the top of the barrel and the under rib is perfect on the bottom of the barrel.  The thimbles need to be inlet to the under rib so the hole is perfectly in line with the ramrod channel.  The instructions I got with my rifle left a lot of these details out.

Don't rush into any step and ask lots of questions.





I am happy with my results.  Still a few hundred more shots to adjust the accuracy.

[chuck p]

sir,
if you decide to go forward with an 1803 and need a stock, i have a brand new untouched precarved stock from dunlap,..these sell for $325 and are premium stocks and have a 6 week wait time, rifle shoppe sells theirs for $195, and carving quality  is not as good, and not sure on the wait time...i will take $180 shipped anywhere in conus
thanks
chuck

[Database121]

PM sent

[Database121]

Well. I've decided to take the plunge. Chuck P was kind enough to sell me a stock, and I'm getting a barrel from Colerain directly. I got ahold of TRS and it just so happens they have the rest of the parts minus an assembled lock in stock, and said they could have the lock built and assembled in 6 weeks. They also agreed to install the sights, tenion, and barrel rib for a very reasonable fee. I just don't have the confidence to do those parts myself.

[vtmtnman]

When ever I was wrangled into building a Rifle Shoppe kit I ordered all the parts and stocked it from a blank. Also has somebody else assemble the lock.

When I made my first muzzle loader I was
happy when it went off on the first shot and was reusable
for another shot.

Bob Roller

LOL,Bob, I have been thinking the same thing about my first I'm working on.

x3 on this.I just shot my Fusil I built and that was my exact thoughts....

[taco650]

When ever I was wrangled into building a Rifle Shoppe kit I ordered all the parts and stocked it from a blank. Also has somebody else assemble the lock.

When I made my first muzzle loader I was
happy when it went off on the first shot and was reusable
for another shot.

Bob Roller

LOL,Bob, I have been thinking the same thing about my first I'm working on.

x3 on this.I just shot my Fusil I built and that was my exact thoughts....

X4 for me.  I'm "building" a Traditions Kentucky rifle kit right now and will be very happy if it just shoots and hits minute of deer at 50.

[Mike_StL]

Database, 

Your plan sounds like a very workable plan. 

Go for it!  You will have your rifle together and shooting in a much shorter period of time than I did. 

Mine is a great shooter.

Mike_StL

[smart dog]

Hi database,
I am not a fan of the Harper's Ferry lock sold by TOW.  I used one on a contract rifle and I found the frizzen and mainsprings to be very whimpy.  In addition, unless you use very long flints they strike about halfway down the frizzen face, which doesn't give you much of a scrape.  I eventually forged my own frizzen and mainsprings, which improved the lock immensely but I was never happy with the geometry. 

dave