Question for you fowler types

[David Rase]

I have had this set of sterling silver Drake fowler castings for quite some time.  Been saving them for one of my "retirement" projects.  I need a barrel for this project and need some help on dimensions.  These parts have been sitting around my shop for about 10 years, which is probably how long it has been since I did any research, so I am starting my research again.  I am looking for information on breech diameter, length, caliber and profile.  Any and all help will be appreciated.
David

[Daryl]

A lovely trim 10 bore comes to mine, David.

[rich pierce]

I've got an original octagon to round 1750s Spanish 20 bore in very good condition that would be worthy of the project.

[SingleMalt]

What size is the lock?  If it's about the size of a large Siler, you could use anything from 28 gauge to 16 gauge.  You could probably go up to 12 gauge.  I'm thinking proportions, not historical accuracy.

[Goo]

Are castings like these still available ?  If so who, where and any details?

[n stephenson]

David, At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I plead the case for a LONG barrel. The bore and profile would probably be  20 bore and up ,with a nice wide breech. I really feel like too many fowlers today are built with too short barrels. I understand that people build what they want  and, that is fine , that`s what they should do . My own personal preference is towards the nicely shaped , graceful , long barreled fowlers , 48 inch and UP barrel length. After seeing your work , I am sure that you will do a bang up job no matter your choice , I`m just pulling for the LONG barrel . JMHO   Nate

[David Rase]

What size is the lock?  If it's about the size of a large Siler, you could use anything from 28 gauge to 16 gauge.  You could probably go up to 12 gauge.  I'm thinking proportions, not historical accuracy.

The lock is from The Rifle Shoppe.  It is their Lewis Drake French Fowler (654).  The lock is 5 3/8" x 1".  That is why I am curious about breech diameter.
David   

[Dave B]

Here are some pics of my french folwer. It has a Spanish barrel and measures 1.120 at the breach, bore is .62, length is 38".  I think is was for a youngster or a lady the trigger pull is like 12.75"

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
You have quite a project ahead because those parts need to integrate with a stock that is itself a mid-18th century rococo object.  I am not really up on 18th century French guns but those I have seen had a wide variety of barrels, with bores mostly less than 16 gauge. Spanish form or tapered round would be appropriate.  I think a hook breech and tang is a must.   IMO, I would use a barrel that is at least 1 1/8" at the breech, maybe 42-44" long and slightly flared at the muzzle. The French fowlers I examined were meant to shoot small birds on the wing, not waterfowl on the water.  As such, the barrels were light to swing properly.  I would check out Rice's new fowler barrels made with 4140 steel because they have very thin walls like many originals. It is going to need chiseling or deep engraving to look right.  The stock could be full or half and a nice piece of European walnut with French rococo carving, a few inlays, and silver wire to compliment the parts. A long baluster wrist, large comb, and narrow lock panels with just a hint of a flat would look right.     

dave

[Ron Scott]

Hi Dave,

You might consider the barrel that Ed Rayl made for my Austrian Fowler class. The original pattern is from my Felix Meier 1730s Vienna Flintlock. It is 42 inches long with a breech of 1 1/8. It has a fast gradual taper from the breech and a subtle tradition from the octagon to round. It makes up into a very nicely balanced fowler.  Ed Rayl made them for my class and was very enthused about the weight and balance.
I am sure he could vary the proportions to fit whatever gauge you might choose.

[Long John]

Dave,

I have done a bunch of research for my double-gun.  Those parts are from a French fusil from around 1780 or so.  The original was probably made in St. Etienne or Paris.  French guns were rarely as large a bore as English guns so 10-bore is definitely out.  Maybe the French were better shots, I don't know.  But you will probably be looking for something in the 28 to 20 bore range.  The barrels on double-guns of that time period were in the 32 to 36 inch range.  For a single maybe slightly longer.  I got my barrels from Robert Hoyt.  He is currently using 12L14 for most of his barrels.  He an I went back and forth on wall thickness - I wanted 0.050' and he wanted 0.100".   We finally compromised at 0.075".  My double-gun is a little heavier than I had hoped because of the weight of the barrels.  I have heard that Ed Rayl will use 4140 and I have heard that Rice is making fowler barrels out of 4140 too, but I haven't confirmed that.  French guns often did not have a wedding band at the transition from octagonal to round. 

That's all I know.  Jerry Huddleston has been a tremendous resource for me.  I suspect he would be willing to respond to queries you would send his way.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

[T*O*F]

I've had one of those fancy French fowlers on the burner for a good while.  I had an 1-1/8" straight octagon, smooth barrel in .50 cal. I had it turned to a tapered oct/round and hand filed the top 5 flats to 16.  Knowing that  it would be heavily chiseled, I put an oversized breechplug on it, figuring that I could do the chiseling on an overlay and solder it to the barrel.

[rich pierce]

Some pix of my Spanish barrel.  36.5" long, about 20 ga, 1.25" at breech.










up load photos

[Joe S.]

That barrel and those parts look like they would make a great couple.

[Ed Wenger]

Wow!  I'm green with envy....  David, I would highly recommend Ron Scott's suggestion regarding the Ed Rayl barrel.  I was in Ron's class and built a fowler with the barrel he suggested.  Super light and elegant.  Also, Dan Fruth makes some really nice slim, round tapered barrels that would be excellent for this type of project.

This is the fowler with the Ed Rayl barrel:



my photos upload

[Pukka Bundook]

Lovely barrel Rich P!

Has it loops for a full length stock?

Lovely fowler Ed!   I like the wood coloration, looks right.  :-)

As far as fowler barrels go, in "Off the shelf",    I'd suggest a 16 bore, as these often are lighter proportionally than the 20-bore offerings.   
I have a Getz 16 bore at 44" and it made  a wonderful light fowling piece on the lines of a Benjamin or maybe a Joseph Griffin.

[rich pierce]

The barrel has a dovetail for an underlug in the octagonal section and looks like there were either soldered lugs or soldered thimbles on the round portion.

[n stephenson]

Rich, any idea what the stamping on the bottom is? . I see a proof or maker`s mark on top , just wondered about the bottom. I have a Belgian made oct/ rnd  .410 smoothbore barrel . I bet it has at least 12 different stampings at the breech . Both symbols and numbers.  Nate

[rich pierce]

No ideas on the stamps. Years ago I posted the barrel here and somebody identified the maker and placed it around 1750-60. I don’t have any proof mark resources.