Alternative feather spring for a Chambers R-faced English?

[Pukka Bundook]

Morning Gentlemen,

I have a very sad has been Joseph Heylin English sporting gun, with no lock.    I Think I could get a Jim Chambers r-faced English to fit, if I shortened the front of the lock about 1/8".
This would mean a shorter feather spring, (or relocate the present one and chop the tip off the top part)  Any suggestions otherwise?
The gun in question has been ridden hard and put away wet, so to speak.
It's an earlier Heylin,  so a round-faced lock may be OK.  It's iron mounted . BTW.

Anyone with an original spare, (!)  Joseph Heylin lock out there??  LOL!
The lock it came with isn't even close and is an old casting never finished (Blackley I believe) and has had the tail cut off.   Also does not line up with touchhole.

Best regards
Richard.

[James Rogers]

Got pictures? We'd love to see another Heylin piece.

[rich pierce]

My first instinct would be to re-bend the current spring. Forge it flat then bend it “sooner” then trim the upper arm as needed.   Get it right, polish, harden and temper. No relocating.

[Pukka Bundook]

James & Rich,

Thanks to both of you for your replies.
I will attach photos but it ain't pretty!   Some clown welded over the touchhole and half drilled  a hole further back to make it look like the lock fit.
I picked it up at an auction I  the UK, relying on auction house photos and report. LOL!  I have a few cripples like this one to sort.

Rich,
Very simple solution and I don't know why it hadn't dawned on me!  Thanks !

Richard.

[Chris Evrard]

I think I'd just make a new spring to fit the modified lock plate. Brownells sells the spring stock. See how an old British gunsmith makes them here....



Forging out the original may be a little difficult due to it being a cast piece to begin with. I have heated them up and moved them some, but have never tried forging a new hook in one. Maybe it is easy though?? I certainly don't mean to step on Rich's post!

Best,

CE

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for this post Chris, and thank you for the old gunsmith bit!
I'm from over there so it will be very interesting to see how he goes about it!  Thanks again.

Always good to have options.  I have  a few locks you made for Jim C. Very nice work and spark whatever!...wet, oily, nothing stops them.  Big fat sizzling sparks.  :-)

Edited to say I thought the old lad was going to break that spring when he crunched it up tight in the pliers! 

Here are some sad, sad Heylin photos as well;
You can see in one photo the unfinished old kit lock, with it's bobbed tail.
Sorry no overall pics at present.
R.

[James Rogers]

Pukka,
That is a really neat fowling piece but are you sure it is by Joseph Heylin? I ask because the proof and view marks do not appear to be London marks and the maker's mark is different from any other Heylin gun I have examined or seen pictured. The maker's mark on your gun has the initials in a box cartouche where the Heylin makers mark is as pictured below. Is there evidence of Heylin's use of that mark in an early period? If not, I would think this is a nice provincial piece by another maker with the same initials, especially with the proof and view marks. I have several references with the names of many, many provinvial maker's with I H initials but I don't have any resource for their proofs.

[Chris Evrard]

What a cool gun!    

[wattlebuster]

Thanks Pukka for posting those pictures. Cool old gun

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for your replies, chaps.

James,
You know, when I first got his gun I had a long look in Blackmore, and thought the mark looked more like John Hortons,...but not quite!  (plus the date is wrong for Horton)
I don't know Why I had settled on Heylin, as the crown is very different, more like in Horton's mark.

Sorry to mislead.  I see the commercial proofs in the photo you kindly provided, and thought that this could alter with barrel source.  I took it that the proofs on mine were worn/badly stamped London proofs.  (Rather than Tower )
I see no marks in Blackmore or his supplement, that look Exactly like this mark, so think you must be right about it being provincial.
Mark is also similar to John Hawkins 2, but the latter mark is more upright, and again, a bit early.

I think you have let me off the hook, James.  Thank you! Now I do not need a lock that Looks like a Heylin, :-)
A question if I may;
Although the fore-end has been cut back and a rib fitted, barrel shortened and such, Can you tell me what date this gun would originally be made?  I had thoughts myself that it may be a shade early for Joseph Heylin, but would appreciate your input. 
The sideplate also had me wondering as I believe I have seen it on Heylin's work, but on Very few others, the only ones I know of being Wogdon, later, and W'm Bailes, plus   One other , but can't think who at present.

Thank you again for your time and thoughts on this.

Richard.
Ca

[Mike Brooks]

That's a great old gun. That's the condition of gun I usually end up with, more of a study piece than I high end collector's piece. My finances always seem to dictate the status of my collecting.... Too bad the old girl got separated from her lock., Can't help much with a fix, above my pay grade.

[James Rogers]

Richard, I have seen that sideplate on quite a few guns of different maker's and also in pistol form. Do you have some architectural pics of the stock? And of the lock mortise?
I find this a VERY interesting gun!

[Pukka Bundook]

Mike,
Yes, afraid I am also of limited means so wind up with stuff that no-one else wants to tackle!  Mind, I have this passion to put things right,  give things the kiss of life as it were.
One plus though;
If it Was a high -end collectable gun, I wouldn't dare touch it. As it is, I can actually work on something from another age. A  wonderful nopportunity.

James,
Either here or by PM or whatever, (Email) I would very much like to see this sideplate on other guns if you could show photos.  I  noticed it on very few in GBG By W Keith Neil. I too find it interesting!
I will try and get some photos taken, but up here in the frozen wastes, it is snowy and minus 18 C....May have to be poor indoor pics for now.

Edited to say I Did find one old photo from the auction house for you James;

[James Rogers]

Richard,
Here is a link to York county firelocks webpage. This is a pistol sideplate on a pistol by Perry. The original was used in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

http://firelockpistols.com/catalog/productphotos/SP07.jpg

[James Rogers]

Silver mounted by Thomas Richards Birmingham

[James Rogers]

Sending you another by PM from a Birmingham made piece
These are just a few I found on my phone. More on my PC and in books.

[Mike Brooks]

Silver mounted by Thomas Richards Birmingham

Uh-oh. That blows my theory that silver isn't wear resistant enough to be used as a swivel boss......

[Pukka Bundook]

Thank you for the photo and link, James.  T Richards is a bit earlier maybe,   Just a shade that is.
What do you think?

I see you have a page I can visit as well... 
Richard.

[James Rogers]

That particular Thomas Richards is probably 1750s-early 60s IMO