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Author Topic: Relic on-line.  (Read 3821 times)

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Relic on-line.
« on: January 05, 2018, 06:33:06 AM »
Saw this 'relic' on -line somewhere.  I believe it was just the one photo, but I think the carving is beautiful!

What do you blokes think?


where can i upload photos
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Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 07:30:13 AM »
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 08:12:04 AM »
Wow Mark,

I saw it on  Google "Images" somewhere.  Odd how things travel!
I had not seen the other photos , Thanks for the link.

Should I ask for this thread to be removed?
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 05:14:59 PM »
Does that have a real buttplate or is it just "carved" in?
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline OldSouthRelics

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 05:45:35 PM »
It's honestly hard to tell from the photographs, but I think the carving on top of the butt is a relief to look like a ornate buttplate, and the piece appears to not actually have one at all. Upon zooming in, it looks like the relief pinches towards the middle and ends near the bottom area...

I did not notice that when I first looked at the pictures. Good eye.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 05:47:05 PM »
Quote from: OldSouthRelics on January 05, 2018, 05:45:35 PM
It's honestly hard to tell from the photographs, but I think the carving on top of the butt is a relief to look like a ornate buttplate, and the piece appears to not actually have one at all. Upon zooming in, it looks like the relief pinches towards the middle and ends near the bottom area...

I did not notice that when I first looked at the pictures. Good eye.
I have seen this on Germanic guns in person before , although not often.
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NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 07:15:28 PM »
A number of years ago at Ticonderoga, Phil Ackermann had a really killer little French boys fowler that was built by a true woodworker; the guard was carved of wood, and not applied like most but was actually carved of the same piece of wood as the stock - all one piece.  The buttplate also, as per this example, was carved and was fairly ornate.  Those Euro dudes really loved to show off!
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Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 07:25:10 PM »
Quote from: Eric Kettenburg on January 05, 2018, 07:15:28 PM
A number of years ago at Ticonderoga, Phil Ackermann had a really killer little French boys fowler that was built by a true woodworker; the guard was carved of wood, and not applied like most but was actually carved of the same piece of wood as the stock - all one piece.  The buttplate also, as per this example, was carved and was fairly ornate.  Those Euro dudes really loved to show off!
How would you get the trigger in there if the triggerguard is not removeable?
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 08:24:02 PM »
Depends upon how you fit and shape the trigger.  Even with 'standard' metal guards, depending upon the shape of the bow and the shaping of the trigger shoe and trigger blade, sometimes the trigger can be pivoted forward (with the pin removed) and - after clearing the trigger plate - slid out sideways, and other times, not.  All depends upon the particular gun and how everything is shaped/put together.
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Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 09:00:42 PM »
Quote from: Eric Kettenburg on January 05, 2018, 08:24:02 PM
Depends upon how you fit and shape the trigger.  Even with 'standard' metal guards, depending upon the shape of the bow and the shaping of the trigger shoe and trigger blade, sometimes the trigger can be pivoted forward (with the pin removed) and - after clearing the trigger plate - slid out sideways, and other times, not.  All depends upon the particular gun and how everything is shaped/put together.
How do you think they would inlet the trigger? Some sort of tiny crooked neck scraper or something?

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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 11:12:50 PM »
Straight down through the guard bow, then there is a metal overlay running the length of the bow and grip rail (good reinforcement), just like the German wood guards that are made separately and subsequently inlet/glued.

There will be a wood patch on the inside of the bow but it's very difficult to see; I've seen probably about three done this way.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 11:15:02 PM by Eric Kettenburg »
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Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 01:16:28 AM »
Thanks Eric. I was curious about that.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 01:44:42 AM »
It's certainly not common.  Probably was very rare even "in the day."  I truly think it was a show-off type thing, because most of the time the wood guards are made separately and then attached.  Even those take some doing, if you ask me!
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Offline vanu

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Re: Relic on-line.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2018, 03:15:59 AM »
You all might be interested in this fowler:

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/Swiss%20or%20German%20Gun.htm

Gary does a nice write-up on it's possible origins and temporal sequence, until recently this was in my collection and was a wonderful study object. You will note that the butt piece is carved to simulate a metal BP which seems to be the case on the subject relic. Of note however, the triggerguard was a separate piece of very dense hardwood, with a brass support strap inlet along the median ridge to reinforce the wood guard which was was screwed to the stock and likely glued as Eric notes above. That said, the trigger was suspended through a brass trigger plate, which I originally thought was horn, but no...brass. I know many on this site have seen many similar examples, and likely would agree that as these European arms are antecedent to American forms, they are all very interesting and important study objects!

Bruce
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