Flint cock throw ?

[Tim Ault]

As I'm in the middle of redoing my Dixie tenn rifle I started looking at the lock , it works ok and is what it is and was wondering what could be done to make it better , main issue is the cock seems real short and even with a longer than normal flint in it bevel down it still hits about half way on frizzen . Now to my question about the throw height , I was on tracks site and looking at the cock that fits the small manton lock , looks similar to the Dixie in shape and size ? But they list a throw of 1.3" where is that measured to and from ? I assume the center of the tumbler ? To the jaw ?   Here's is link to cock    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/0/1/LOCK-LR-1700-CO

Tim

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Measure from the centre of the tumbler square to the tip of the lower jaw.  The orientation of the tumbler square is unlikely to be compatible, but that can be repaired easily.

[Tim Ault]

Thank you , just got home and measured the one I have and it is indeed shorter only 1.14"  think it's worth trying the manton cock on the lock I have ? Is the picture is acurate the tumbler orientation is very clove to what I have now , option two try heat and bend slightly the one I have ?  Thoughts ?

[rich pierce]

What lock do you have now, and can you post a picture of it at half cock?

[Tim Ault]

It's a Dixie tenn mountain rifle lock made in Japan well the barrel was for sure anyways .

[rich pierce]

I would stretch it vertically. It’s a 2 person job. I would forge or file a piece of square stock to fit the square hole tightly and drive it in there then cut it off leaving half an inch on each side. Tighten that square stock up in the vise like your life depends on it. One person uses a torch to get the neck of the cock almost yellow hot. The other grabs the jaws with a pair of tongs or pliers and stretches the cock upwards. Be careful to not get it twisted or cockeyed. Test it after you gain 3/16” of height. I’m guessing that will do it.

Do a dry run first with a cold cock to make sure it’s not going to slip and burn a huge cavity in your face.

[smylee grouch]

Can you get a replacement for the current cock in case you booger up the one you will work on? I shouldn't cost that much to buy just a cock that you were considering as a replacement, may be buy one of those and try it before you work over the present cock. Just food for thought here.

[Dave Patterson]

Can you get a replacement for the current cock in case you booger up the one you will work on? I shouldn't cost that much to buy just a cock that you were considering as a replacement, may be buy one of those and try it before you work over the present cock. Just food for thought here.

Just a thought, but if you're not absolutely set on reworking the original, I just put one a L&R RPL4B from Muzzleloader Builders' Supply on my Dixie TMR (with the taller Bedford-style hammer); only required a very little bit of deepening the original lock mortise:  no visible changes to the outside of the rifle... and works.  That way, the rifle can be returned to original in minutes.

Here's a link to the MBS RPL page:  they offer two replacement locks for the Dixie TMR. 

http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=5330941.27180&product=Locks&user4=L%26R replacement locks

[Scota4570]

I bet you could stretch it by grabbing the bottom in a vice and pulling on the top with vice grips, and or prying.  Get the part you want to bend the hottest with an oxy acetylene or MAPP gas torch.  Do a little at a time and work your way up. 

That is one strange looking cock. 

[jerrywh]

 I would just heat that hammer up and stretch it.

[ddoyle]

Online you should be able to find a PDF free book by Peter H. Kunz  Restaurieren Von Vorderladerwaffen
isbn 978-3-033-04909-3 It will show you in German-like detail what cock/frizzen geometry should look like (for the locks presented).pp 28 "Typlsche Hauptmasse von Steinnschlossem". It is also available in a slightly dumbed down form  in Anglais but I cannot find the file to give you the title. Great resource as are all Peter's works-

Stretching it will be fun!

[Tim Ault]

Brought it with me to work today and am gonna heat and stretch it will advise on how it turns out . Yeah I know about the LR replacement lock just don't wanna spend 170 bucks if I can make it somewhat better with 10 minutes of my time on the original . The geometry may suck on it but it does spark well surprisingly ! Like I said it is what it is hopefully making it taller will help some.

Thanks all , Tim

[Hungry Horse]

I have a gun with that same lock in it, and here is what I did. I took the springs out of the lock, but left everything else in tact. I put a piece of metal rod between the hook where the spring tip contacts the tumbler, and the bridle, and clamped the whole thing in a vice. Then I got a torch, and a box end wrench that fit over the jaw screw on the cock to use as a lever. I then heated it up just below the jaw, and put a little pressure on the wrench. You can do this with a closed frizzen, and watch where the lower jaw is in relationship to the existing scrape marks on the frizzen.
 I must say this helped, but I still had inconsistent ignition, until I adapted the frizzen off of an old Dixie F1 flintlock to this lock. Halfsoling the frizzen would probably work as well. My gun is now more reliable than my percussion guns.

  Hungry Horse

[T*O*F]

I've done a number of those.  Here's the easy way to do it.  Mount it in a vise.  Heat the bend.  Stick the jaws of a pair of snap ring pliers in the gap and squeeze until the lower jaw moves to where you want it.  Then reheat the whole cock to normalize it, otherwise you might experience a crack at the point of the bend sometime down the road.

[L. Akers]

With the cock full down the line of the lower jaw should point to the center of the pan.  Looks like yours is pointing completely behind the pan.  I'd try bending the neck to correct.

[Tim Ault]

Great idea using the snap ring pliers !  Thank you.  Can I assume to just let it air cool after I heat it and bend then normalize with heat again will be the proper thing to do ?

[Tim Ault]

Gott'er done  hits on the frizzen about where I wanted it to . If anyone has one of these locks it's well worth the few minutes it took me to do it . Thanks all for the advice

Tim

[rich pierce]

Nicely done!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Wow...radical improvement.  At rest, the flint should point directly into the centre of the pan, without contacting it.  Is your last image half cock?

[Tim Ault]

Wow...radical improvement.  At rest, the flint should point directly into the centre of the pan, without contacting it.  Is your last image half cock?

   
    Yes it is , and yes now it does point in the pans center at full throw  , I opened up both of the bends some and the throw is now 1.3"  an increase of abouts .180"

[rick/pa]

That made a big difference alright. As Scota4570 said that is a strange looking cock, almost as if some one else had bent it at one time or it was dropped and bent. Are you the original owner of the gun?

[Tim Ault]

I'm at minimum the second owner , bought it off a fellow member here about year ago . It's possible it could have benn dropped and bent in a drop /fall but it shows no evidence of mistreatment or being bent on purpose .  Always bothered me because I knew I just wasn't right or even close the way it was  just needed a reason and some encouragement to take a torch to it .

[Dave Patterson]

...that is a strange looking cock, almost as if some one else had bent it at one time or it was dropped and bent...

I've only seen a few of them, but they all looked that way.  Mine does, as well.  One of the reasons I went with the RPL:  didn't figure I had the skills to pull-off a modification without wishing I hadn't. 

Nicely done, Mr A.